Called to Create: Ministry Outside the Church

00:02 - Speaker 1 You know, sometimes you just have to be willing to get out of your comfort zone and say yes to new things. And in this episode, as we talk to Jesse, we're going to hear from him that over the years, that has been a banner over his life and a guiding principle in some of the creative choices he has made as he's moved from worship director, worship leader, to entrepreneur, business owner and all along the way. You know, you can see the evidences of God's kindness. So join us as we talk through some of these experiences and hear this amazing testimony. All right, let's get going. Jesse, good to see you today. Good to see you, Matt, not like we haven't already been hanging out for a couple hours, but here we are. Here we are. I'm so excited that we get to have you here today and get to learn from you and listen to you. We talk about this stuff all the time, so it just makes sense that we would transition to actually recording it for once. Right, yeah? 01:05 - Speaker 2 This is a weekly podcast that we're finally recording. That's right. 01:09 - Speaker 1 This happens every week, so if you're ever in Phoenix and you want to hang out with Jesse and I while we talk about this stuff, anyway, you know, come hang out with us. 01:16 - Speaker 2 Yeah, basically, you're welcome to join us. In fact, I think my friend Malik wants to join us one of these weeks. We'd love to have him. 01:26 - Speaker 1 Love to have him. No-transcript. You spent a lot of time as a worship leader, worship director, um, in the music scene, so can you just talk us through you know your testimony, what, what you did, what you learned um, the positions you held and kind of the, the bands, the music, all of it. 02:00 - Speaker 2 So primarily, I was a bass player, um, as you know, you watched me play a bunch of times. But in my young adult years, my early years of being married, my wife and I, I got to be a worship director for a church and I actually led worship once as a singer. Keep in mind, I'm a bass player, not a singer, um, and it showed, but it was. But you know what? There were a couple of people that were like, wow, I thought you had done that before. So apparently I at least had enough confidence in what I was doing, um, to portray the idea that I've done it before, Um. 02:50 But ultimately, as you know, as a teenager, uh, coming up in the church, I came from a family where I was the only one that went to church, um, blessed by our, you know, my next door neighbor, being a youth pastor and having a son close to my age, and we were able to basically get really bored, because in the mid nineties we didn't have the internet, we didn't have anything, so we would just like sit around on the weekends, when, what do we want to do? 03:31 And I'm pretty sure that it was a Saturday of boredom where my friends and I were like, let's start a band. And so you know, my friend Matt got a guitar, my friend Brady got a drum set, and they were the pastor's kids senior pastor's kids and youth pastor's kids and there was me. And then we recruited a friend and eventually we started playing music because actually it took a really long time. Because actually it took a really long time or at least my perception is that it took a long time for my parents to acquire a bass guitar for me, and so I got the bass, didn't know how to play it, and the next day we had practice and then all of a sudden we were the hot church youth band and then we were on the road and then we were playing, you know, eight days a week, either rehearsing, playing at other youth services, or there's a trash guy outside. It appears that's right. 04:47 - Speaker 1 We'll get to that later. Or some kind of semi we're in a mobile podcast studio which we're going to get to. 04:54 - Speaker 2 We are going to get to that. But yeah, so you formed a band, we formed a band, we played together from, I believe, 1997 to 2007. And then we went off our separate ways and all playing in different capacities, in different ways. And I ended up working in a church plant with my former youth pastor, who then, basically what's the word? Recruited me to be the worship director and we started doing that and I'm very blessed to have had that season. It didn't end well and actually I did work for the youth group for a while as well, and that's actually how I met my wife, and so we were, you know, working at the church together, not yet dating, not yet in a relationship. We were young and we became close and then it turned into a great relationship, which then led us to the bridge where our former youth pastor was the now senior pastor, and that's where we became the worship director and I was on the board, and all of that lasted for about four years and and then it didn't end well. 06:30 - Speaker 1 And what? Um, yeah, that's, that's a whole nother podcast, right, the? It is the ministry within the ministry. But what? When were you touring? What were? What was that like? 06:42 - Speaker 2 So in 2004 is when I did most of my touring Um, you know, before 2004,. We did some short legs and stents out on the road, but they were super short. Um, my longest time on the road was with Dunamis um, d-u-n-a. Manifestation of divine power. Um, which was a band that I, you know, just kind of happened to land on Um, and there's a lot, there's a lot more that we could go into it. 07:17 But ultimately, uh, we were promised a record deal and so we went out on the road and we were, we were out, we were promised that we needed to complete 35 shows to get a, to get a record deal. Um, which we were like, okay, yeah, sure, it sounds good. And our manager said, hey, I have you booked at, um, booked at, I believe it was like 25 universities and colleges across the country, and the other amount needs to be either in churches or other venues that you meet along the way. So you do the 25 and fill in another 10 as needed, and so we're like, all right, sounds good. So we got on a bus that should have never left Arizona and we started driving and we got to California, northern California, and, um and our manager, we're about to do our first show. I'm pretty sure this is how it went either. Either way, we were in. You know, we were in Northern California Did. 08:29 - Speaker 1 I say Northern. 08:30 - Speaker 2 California. Okay, good, um, cause there's also Northern Nevada, which is a fun one as well. But, um, northern California. He messages us hey, um, we just lost all of the college and university dates and we're like we lost 25 shows. He goes yeah, you're just going to have to figure it out. Don't come home, you have shows in Northern California, Nevada, oklahoma and Florida. Those are it. You have to fill in the rest. Ouch, and we were like, oh, cool, okay, it was all supposedly because we weren't carrying the right insurance policy, which I'm pretty certain we didn't have any insurance policy and so we did the shows. 09:21 We did 35, came back, thought we were going to get signed, because in 2004, 2005, that's what you did as a band you tried to get signed and make your way and we didn't. We didn't get signed, and there's a whole nother load of stories that go along with that. But we ended up, you know, on the road for an unbelievable amount of time and we made tens of dollars, yep. So we came back and basically got a $250 check. I was like good job, guys, you did it and uh, and that was that, yeah. 10:09 - Speaker 1 That's a whole. That's a whole teaching on. You know, oh, the music industry is kind of difficult, you know, if you want to be a musician, it's not all glamorous, it isn't so um, so that transition. So you, you're, you're in churches, you're working in worship different capacities, you're playing music. Then at some point there's some move from music into like, oh, I've got to make, I've got to actually make an income transition. Look, and at what point did you kind of move from church ministry into not only the digital work that you do but, if more specifically, even like working for yourself, being an entrepreneur? 10:54 - Speaker 2 That kind of accidentally happened. So we'll backtrack a little bit, because all I ever wanted to do was something creative, so it didn't, it didn't necessarily matter to me. When you know, my wife and I were working for Hot Church. All I wanted to do was be creative there, and so, you know, I had a camera that I had access to. Youtube wasn't around, none of this social media was around, but all I wanted to do was be creative, whether that was playing music or behind a camera. My first camera was that I that I got from my grandpa was when I was five, and so I jokingly say that I've been a content creator since I was five. Um, but really, like, we're all creators in some capacity, um and so, um, it just can you reframe what you said, cause I lost my train of thought. 12:00 - Speaker 1 Yes, when did you? Where did you? At some point you transitioned into kind of working for yourself. Okay, so, so you, you've gotten. You had a camera, you wanted to be creative, but at some point you had to make a jump. You had to, you had to try something. Was that when you started doing photography for a company, or how did how did that all happen? 12:20 - Speaker 2 Yeah, so my, my wife and I, when we were working for the bridge, um, she came, she went and hung out with some friends of ours that we met when we were going to cornerstone and they were a husband and wife photography team and they did weddings. 12:40 And so she went and hung out with them and I don't really know how it all transpired and why she went to hang out with them, but she came home and was like will you start a photography company with me? And I was like, yeah, newborn portrait work. We did one wedding and that was awful, and so we never wanted to do another one, but we just again my wife's a creative too we just wanted to be creative. And eventually my wife was like I'm really tired of you know the requests of people, you know I'm where we started a family and she just wanted to be with our kids. And so she was like I don't really want to take pictures of other people anymore. And I was like, great, got this really expensive camera. What? What do you want to do? And she's like, uh, nothing, I'll take pictures of our kids. And I was like that's not going to pay us anything, right? And so, um, I had, you know, we had this camera and right around that time I really liked the idea of taking pictures of houses and YouTube. You know, we we got married in 2009. So 2010 ish is when we started doing stuff. 14:11 And so around that time, my wife's best friend, uh, was flipping houses, like million dollar houses in paradise Valley with her then boyfriend and um, and she was complaining about paying a thousand dollars for 10 photos, um, to a house that she wanted to sell. And she's like how am I supposed to sell a house with 10 photos? And I was like, hey, like can I come and take pictures of your house? I actually think that I could do it. I've never done it before, but I think I can. And she was like, yeah, come on over. And so I went over and I had, you know, a Canon 5D Mark II. I knew how to bracket the shots, but I didn't have like a speed light or any kind of flash, so it was all bracketed shots. That may or may not mean anything to you, but I went there, I photographed it and I met her boyfriend, who handed me $200. I was like, thank you so much for coming here and hand me 200 bucks. And I was like, oh, I think I can make money doing this me 200 bucks. And I was like, oh, I think I can make money doing this and fast forward a couple of days. I returned the photos back to them. They loved them and sold the house sight unseen to an out of state buyer. And you were hooked. I was, I was hooked, and so were they. Yeah, and so her boyfriend called for a meeting and was like hey, how about this? We'll pay you $500 to come and shoot every house we do, and if it sells in 30 days, we'll pay you a bonus. And I was like okay, and so if it sold in under 30 days, it was a $500 bonus. If it did 45 days, it was, I think, 250 or 300. And then after 45 days, if it didn't sell, then it was just the 500. And I was like sounds good. And so we went with that for a long time. 16:22 And I did that for a long time. And, uh, I did that for a while and right around the same time, uh, one of my friends from uh, my worship band, uh times uh, called me and was like hey, does your camera do video? And I was like, uh, I don't know, let me call you back. And so my buddy his name is John Lloyd, who's a worship leader for a church called Harvest and so I figured out that my camera did video. And I was like, yeah, dude, it does. 16:56 And he was like my church wants to pay you to do our video announcements and we'll buy you a computer. And I was like I don't know how to do any of that stuff. And he was like, cool, can you learn? And I was like, for sure, like, sign me up. And so he's like we've got a green wall at the church that we can green screen, you can key out everything. 17:19 And so I YouTube university trying to figure out how to do it. 17:24 And so once a month, I would drive all the way out to East Mesa from Central Phoenix and I would record all of their video announcements for the month and then I'd deliver them back via Dropbox. I never had to go there, except for on baptism days, because they wanted cool video for that. And so, um, we did that for a long time until, uh, that church was absorbed into Sun Valley and once it was absorbed by Sun Valley, they had their own team and that was it, and that was it. And right around the time that that announcement gig with computer and $600 a month my friend came to me and was like I want to do video work with my custom furniture company. I've got this idea for these videos. Will you come and drop a contract? And so we agreed to a contract and we started creating videos. I was working for GoDaddy at the time and I took every Tuesday off from GoDaddy so I was able to go into our internal system and select every Tuesday and request it off, and it always got approved. 18:52 - Speaker 1 And that's kind of a an important point for entrepreneurs or people growing a businesses. To make the point that you had a quote, unquote. You know real job. I don't want to say it that way but you had a quote unquote real job that you were working while you developed a side gig. 19:09 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and I always. Even when I was in ministry, I always had a side gig too. It was never full-time. I always always wanted to be full-time in the church, and it never happened no-transcript Well. 19:51 I would say that even my philosophy now as a you know, I'm, let's just say, 25, or a little bit more than 25 years into my walk, or a little bit more than 25 years into my walk it's proven over and over and over again that the church itself didn't have any full-time employees. 20:19 And that might be a little bit further down the road of a discussion in this capacity right right now, but, like I don't, I I firmly believe that, um, we, as as people in ministry, our ministry shouldn't entirely be the church, because I think one you lose sight, but also I think it it can lead to a lot of corruption in, in the capacity of like where's, where's all the money going, which I think is a deeper where's all the money going, um, which I think is a deeper um conversation, or maybe another time. 21:04 But, like I do think that we actually should all be doing something different, and I actually think, um that we should all be entrepreneurs, um, I I think that I think that our success is directly tied to what we create, and we are created by the ultimate creator, and we are always so much more fulfilled when we create something, like where we're sitting right now, even though I feel like I don't know what I'm doing. It's always a whole lot more fun and enjoyable to actually create something and do it even when we don't know what we're doing. 21:56 - Speaker 1 Can you pause for a minute and will you share a little bit about what you're doing, like where we're sitting, what you're developing, the creative idea you've had before I get really into more thoughts about ministry and what that looks like as an entrepreneur. 22:11 - Speaker 2 So where are? 22:11 - Speaker 1 we sitting and what are you doing? 22:13 - Speaker 2 Well, let's backtrack a little bit, because I started doing the videos with my friend who owned the custom furniture company and about two months into it, stephanie, my wife, looked at me and said you are a different person on tuesdays and I was like what do you mean? She goes? You come home happier, you come home more fulfilled, you just radiate excitement. Um, and how do we do that every day, uh-huh. And so, with that, um, around the same time, you know, I was like, well, I don't, I don't know how we do it, but let's try to figure it out. Like, well, I don't know how we do it, but let's try to figure it out. 23:05 And shortly after that conversation, my friend texted me and was like, how do I get you here full time? And I was like just pay me enough to keep my wife at home with our kids. And he understood that because we homeschool our kids and, uh, they homeschool theirs. And so he was like, absolutely, you know, we actually just lived right, right down the road from each other. Um, so it was really easy, uh, for that. 23:37 - Speaker 1 Um, and so he came over and we drew up a contract and I did that for a long time. Yeah, that's some good godly timing right there For sure. 23:40 - Speaker 2 And right around the same time that that picked up, sun Valley came in and absorbed Harvest, so that eliminated that gig and so I was able to transition to managing their social media full time and creating YouTube videos for their YouTube channel. And just going in that direction answered a prayer in the capacity that, like I was always like God, please get me a creative job in the church. And it was almost like he was like no, I want you in a creative position outside of the church. You can do more work outside of the church. 24:35 Um, I tend to believe that if you are working inside of the church, you are only relegated to the congregation that you help, especially in a creative role. There's very few creative pastors that are able to go and do it in a larger capacity. You know, a friend of mine started the Outcry tour and they did that for a season and he was a pastor and he was a creative but like he was more behind the scenes and you tend to see worship leaders making their way around the country but you don't. You don't see. You know video people, you know, or you know the creative team at the church, right, traveling around, right Ministering to other creatives and stuff like that. 25:38 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you're talking about like a mobility that the job kind of implicitly doesn't have, because you're only serving a specific congregation. 25:46 - Speaker 2 Right, and so you're stuck. You know, and, and that didn't feel good to you, so it's changed, because at the time when I was in that world, that's all I wanted, right, and now, and now that I'm out of it, I'm like, no, I have, I have so much more reach with the capacity of work that I do now, um, and, and I get. I get interactions with more unchurched people and in the also in the same token, and I get interactions with more unchurched people, right, and also in the same token, I get to work alongside other people that don't believe the exact same thing I do. So you know, like when you're working inside of the church walls, you're talking to you have confirmation bias. You're talking to the same people every week. You're interacting with everybody that was already there last week. Very few people are coming in. Unless you have a really rapidly growing church, it's pretty stale. 26:53 - Speaker 1 In the grand scheme of things, you can do creative things, you can put new lights in, you can get a different fog machine, you can get new cameras, you could do your video announcements a little bit differently, but in the end, you're working seven days a week for that one ministry and you're just moving from Sunday to Sunday, right, um and so you were let's get back to how you were talking about the opportunities that you have are are just significantly more if you're not, you know, tethered and anchored to a local church, which which, again, as you stated and I think, I think it's important to note that you're not, um, you're not, you're not even being negative necessarily, you're just sharing your experience, because I think what people have to remember is, for such a long time, all you wanted, and all many of us wanted, was to be full-time in a church. Yeah, you know, that was like the apex, that was like the, that was like the I've arrived moment. I'm a full-time minister at a local church. I've, I've made it. This is, this is the ultimate uh end to anyone who ever wanted to minister or pastor. But you're in your journey. 28:09 You know, as you stated, you felt like God was maybe saying yeah, I hear you. You, you want to be creative. I designed you to be creative, but he kept bringing you outside of the church. And that's kind of where I want to get into your experience in entrepreneurship, even as a calling, as you now understand it and as you now have embraced it. You know you are an entrepreneur, you are running and developing businesses. You are being creative all the time, every day, and how has your sense of calling changed? 28:44 Or, you know, how do you kind of view that now that, because this is who you are Right Again, as we stated, we're sitting in your mobile podcast trailer, which is an idea you're developing, yep, and so how are you? You know again, how do you because calling is a big deal, you know, a lot of us struggle with that. We struggle with like, how am I made? What am I supposed to do? Am I doing what you wanted me to do? God, can I mess that up? Am I missing the mark? I mean, we've all struggled with those questions. So, again, as you've kind of grown through it and gotten to this point, you know, tell us a little bit how you understand that calling and how you're answering it. 29:22 - Speaker 2 And you know, Well, so, um, at the very root level, a lot of people um get really caught up in what God wants them to do. Um, what, what is my calling on my life? And really the answer to it is go and tell as many people about Jesus as humanly possible and that's it. Like we don't need to do anything else, like I don't need this trailer to do that. I don't need, um, my, I don't need the church to do that. Like, um, what? Uh? 30:09 The lead singer from 10th Avenue North, um Mike Donaghy or Donnelly His first name's Mike. I know that, um, I've met him before, very briefly, very, very genuine guy that I really like what he says, because a lot of people will be like, how did you know that God called you to be a musician? And he's like I'm going to butcher it. So, mike, if I mess it up, I'm sorry, but like he's like God didn't call me to be a musician. Because, like, what if something happens to me and my voice doesn't work anymore? Or I get in an accident and my hands don't work anymore, so I can't play guitar anymore? Accident and my, my hands don't work anymore, so I can't play guitar anymore? If my, if my calling is rooted in what I do, then if something happens that I can't do that anymore, then I am ruining my ability to do my calling. And so I take that pretty, pretty literal in the in the sense that, like all we're called to do, our purpose in life is to try to win as many people to Jesus as possible. Mm-hmm. 31:32 And whether that's within the church or outside of the church, the church isn't the walls that create a building. The church is us, and if we don't, there's a lot of pastors that do a really bad job of living their life in a capacity of acceptance and grace outside of the church walls. When they're in their church, they're really good at being extroverted and personable, but if you catch them at a coffee shop or you catch them on a plane, they're really not, and a lot of them will tell you that, like they're not, they're not really. You know they're. They're not really approachable on on just a personal level, on a regular day. They they store up all their energy for Sunday and they give it on Sunday and then like, if they got to get on a plane Sunday night, don't hang out with me there because I'm I'm not the person Right and that's because we've I have some personal feelings, but like we've, we've we've asked too much of our pastors. Um, and I, I certainly don't want that burden. You know, I don't want to be a pastor and I think that God protected me from that scenario Because, you know, when we left the bridge, it was a really um, it was a really challenging time. 33:23 Um, because it rocked our, our, uh, what's the like, our church concept? Yeah, your identity or yeah, like it just rocked my world, not only because, you know, the pastor that I had met when I was eight years old, who had become one of my closest friends as an adult, you know, just basically, like, said that he was going to leave the church and go and do something else that we'd worked so freaking hard to do, and go and do something else that we'd worked so fricking hard to do. Um, and I was like you can't just tell us that you're, that you're looking at a different job at another church and we're just waiting for God to open up those. No, no, no, you, you're telling us that you're quitting, so you need to be done. That was my, that was my framework and that ruined our you know our idea of what church was, and so for a season it was really hard and it wasn't. We didn't start going to church again until we started going to New City Church in central Phoenix when we lived in Levine. 34:42 - Speaker 1 Yeah, so that was a bit of a journey for you all. 34:45 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I wonder if you're going to be able to hear my stomach grumble. 34:51 - Speaker 1 Thankfully, this is not a baking podcast. 34:54 - Speaker 2 But I am hungry. That would be something. Maybe we can get kitchen in here and we can do a cooking show. 35:04 - Speaker 1 So I want to get back to the feelings and the thoughts that you have about the work you're doing now, being connected to kingdom, being creative. I'm going to put some words in your mouth, but I want you to talk a little bit about your belief about doing, you know, being creative. Being creative, that's doing really beautiful work, doing excellent work. You know why does that matter to you. But, again, getting to be God has answered your prayer about being creative. Yes, it may look a little different than what you maybe were asking for, which, again, I think is totally a God thing. For sure, you know, yeah, you're creative. I'm going to have you do it this way, not maybe the exact way you had thought. So you're getting to be creative. And again, how has that, how has that opened up doors of ministry for you? Even now, I think it'd be really interesting, even if you shared about. You know, at the homeschool co-op, you know you've gotten the ability and the opportunity to teach different classes about doing digital media. I mean, that's amazing. 36:20 - Speaker 2 It's fun. It's fun. I would say that like so you know this, but most of my clients are Mormon, which I think is really funny. But I'm super selective about who I work with and who I align myself with, and it just so happens that a lot of times, mormons just do business really well for some reason. Um, I don't understand why. Um, mainly, I would say, if we're, if we're really like trying to dissect it, I think it's because they don't allow their faith to dictate how they do business. 37:02 So a lot of Christian businesses will lead with Christian business I'm a Christian in business and then they end up just doing crappy work. And Mormons, they don't lead with Mormon-led business, they just do business Well, they're kind, they're generous. Um, they, they, they under promise, over deliver, um, and a lot of times I I really, I really don't think that what I do is all that great. What I do is all that great, and maybe that's just because I'm a creative that wants to do the best that I can and when I'm doing it, I feel like I'm failing miserably. That used to happen when I would be driving to a concert to play or driving to church on Sunday morning to lead worship. I'd be like I don't even remember the songs, and a lot of times I'll be driving um today, being one of them driving here in this trailer. You know, not in the trailer. I was pulling the trailer in my truck and I was just thinking I, I suck, I suck and I and I know that a lot of um business owners do that A lot of people often think that they suck, um, and I think it all the time. 38:34 Um, and it's. It is negative self-talk, for sure, but also I think that it is what kind of fuels and pushes us to do our best. Um, and so, for me, I I don't ever, I don't ever talk about my faith unless it is there's a really clear opportunity. Um, because I don't, I don't want to just lead with it as if, you know, like I feel like my ministry in in the capacity that I serve now, is doing the best that I can, while still thinking that I suck at it, but doing the best that I possibly can, and then, if the opportunity comes, I'll, I'll do it Like I'll open up Um. 39:29 Example would be the other day, um, we were outside, kids were playing basketball with the neighbors and we have some new neighbors who we know are church attenders, um, they go to a different church, um, and I don't know the capacity of their faith, but I started to share our philosophy and our faith, uh, with them. And I know we're on different sides of the aisle but I wanted to start unlocking that because I know that our kids are going to, if they don't move or we don't move, our kids are going to grow up together and I do know that, even though their kids go to faith-based schools, the schools that they go to are different than the way that we believe, and so I know it's going to be different. And I want to share the truth because I do believe that the Bible is truly the word of God, and so we try to follow that to a T. And a lot of people obviously, you know, manipulate the words and manipulate the beliefs, and so, you know, I started to share that, but we, you know, they knew we were Christians prior, but they didn't. They, I'm sure, didn't know everything, um, and I kind of unpacked a little bit. I didn't unpack everything, um, but unpack everything. But I unpacked my philosophy on why we homeschool, because I feel that it is important for our kids to get the foundation of the Bible wholeheartedly, so that when they enter the real world, they are not shook by the let's see what's the word, they're not shook by the crude way our world is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They and I also, we homeschools that our kids can become business owners and leaders, and all of that I don't want. I don't want my kids ever punching a clock, um, and if they do, I want it to be um for something that they want to do, not something that they have to do, because I think it's. We're fully, fully capable and able to um, create our own way of making money, yep, and that that leads us to where we're at, where we're sitting now, um. 42:29 So you know, for for the last basically 10 years, I've been working on and managing YouTube channels. Basically 10 years I've been working on and managing YouTube channels Um. We shoot, edit and deliver content to YouTube, um multiple times a week. We deliver content to Instagram and all other social platforms multiple times a week. And um at the end of 2024, um At the end of 2024, I had this idea to start offering podcasting to the businesses that I work with. 43:20 But one of the things that I kept on running into, even though I bought the mics and I had the cameras and all of these different things, I kept on running into a scenario where the business owners that I was having conversations with, they kept on saying, well, I don't have space, I don't have an office to do the work in, um, or I don't have space in my office to you know, set up cameras and lights. And I said, hey, I have cameras and I have lights and I have this podcasting equipment, like I'll come to you and set it up in your office and do it. And he's like but you know, several of them were like but where would we do it? In the office? Like where's it gonna look cool to do it? And I was like, well, I don't know, let's figure it out. 44:06 And there was always that hurdle of I don't know where to do it. And this little, this little bug started kind of picking away at me of like you need to solve that problem for the people that you want to work with, cause there's there's a lot of people that want to have a podcast, but a lot of them don't have the means to do it, you know, and the means being the space, the cameras and all of that. So we, we started talking about it, my wife and I, and I couldn't let it go, and so I started investigating sprinter vans and I really, really and maybe someday it'll happen but I really wanted to do a sprinter van build out, where it would be a whole lot easier. It's just all one unit, um, but my idea was to be able to pull up anywhere and and do a podcast with anybody and have them walk in and walk out. Um, it's called mobile podcast trailer and the taglines where podcasting comes to you and that's where we're sitting right now. 45:25 And so a couple months ago I started having a conversation with a potential client, who has now become a client, and I told him about my podcasting idea and he goes oh dude, don't do a sprinter van, do a trailer. You have a truck. You can pull the trailer with your truck. And I was like I've I've never driven a trailer before. Again, going back to you know, all of my life I didn't know how to play bass, but the next day after getting a bass, I had practice. I didn't know how to do video, but my camera did video. Um, I figured it out. Um, I didn't know how to pull a trailer, so we started having to figure that out. 46:14 And so, while I was investigating trailers, um, I messaged a guy on Facebook and I was like hey, I'm interested in your trailer. And he was like I don't have that one anymore. And I thought it was just a normal dude, you know, just like a guy like you and I, just selling a trailer on the side of his house or something. And he was like but I do have a couple more. And so I went and I had this itch that I couldn't let go of. It just kept on nagging me go look at this trailer, go look at this trailer. And so I was just like all right, well, I don't know what trailer I'm going to look at, but I pull in and it's a trailer lot, this trailer sales lot, a car dealership, trailer dealership I didn't even know they had them. And I walk on the lot and I look at this trailer that we're actually sitting in right now and I look on the front and there's a AC unit on it. And I was like I need an AC unit. 47:18 - Speaker 1 We live in Phoenix. Yeah, we live in Arizona, you better have an AC unit on your mobile podcast unit. 47:22 - Speaker 2 Yeah, by the way, trailer's black. Maybe I should have done that differently, but I didn't have a choice. The trailer was already built. So I open up the trailer and I walk in and it's done. On the inside it's stark, white, sterile as can be. But I look at this thing and I'm like, holy crap, this is, this, is it, this is a space, and um, it's funny because I always am like I can never envision things, um, before they're actually, you know, done. 48:01 Um, but I I walked into this thing and I was like nope, wall will go there and I'll put sound paneling on the sides and we'll put a rug right here and we'll put two chairs and we'll sit side by side. It'll be tight, but it'll be, it'll be cool. Um, and it just started coming together. And it just started coming together. And you know, I have my business and I'd never taken a loan on anything, but I did not have the means in my bank account to just run all of this money, and so I got a loan for the trailer and got a credit card. I just started spending money like it's going out of style, and the intention is to be able to pull up and have conversations like we're having right now, but the intent is that I would actually be over there, outside of the camera shot, with my desk and all of the audio recording gear, um, basically, directing like as the engineer director, the director of it and two people. 49:14 um my, you know, essentially my clients would be sitting here, uh, recording a podcast, and you know I will see how the audio turns out out, but we've got a brisk 62 degrees going on here, it's, it's nice it's, and I feel like it's pretty darn quiet, um, and you know we're we're plugged into your house right now, but I do have a generator, um, just beyond here that I've tested and the idea, the way that we've figured it out to operate the best to have the noise. The furthest away is to pull the generator out and wheel it to the front of my truck and run the generator over there, because even though I bought the quietest generator that I could find, which was expensive, it still makes noise, and so if it's in the cavity where the the generator box is, it's too loud and it would create vibration in here and rumbling, and you can even hear the airplane flying over right now, um, and you can hear cars come by. I think those things are okay, um, but the generator noise, I think would be distracting, and I don't think that AI software has come far enough to be able to edit out that noise enough to where it sounded decent, and so there's some things that I've had to pivot on. Ideas like this right here, this setup, the way that we're sitting, is a little tight. 51:00 Ideas like this right here, this setup, the way that we're sitting, is a little tight. Um, I may switch it to, um, basically where my camera is right. Here we sit diagonal from each other, so I extend the the walls even further. These, uh, acoustic panels are really sweet you see them in every other podcast but I wanted I wanted them to be black instead of that standard brown um, I wanted it to be unique in a way, um, with this little um you know yeah yeah, chair rail around um and as we progress I'm going to add more soundproofing and stuff, so it gets a little bit more dead in here, Um, but overall that's we're sitting in. 51:51 You know the dream that I had a year ago of offering podcasting to my clients, and I've done one other video in. Well, two other videos in here already, but obviously this is the first podcast in the trailer in its full capacity. 52:12 - Speaker 1 I love it, I'm glad we were able to do it. And can you so in your story, you know, as you stated? But a lot of it has been like, yeah, I'll figure that out, yeah, I'll do that. What part do you think God has played in that story? You know, like you said, you had a nudge, you had an itch that you couldn't shake. You know, was that the Holy Spirit? Was that a nudge from the Lord? And then, to piggyback on that, I want you to talk a little bit about, like what would be your encouragement to someone listening who you know wants to take also take that step of faith, wants to be creative. Talk us through that. 52:53 - Speaker 2 Yeah. So in the, in the role that I serve as husband, not only did I have to have the, the urge pushing of, I would say, the Holy Spirit, I also had to have the confirmation from my wife. And it's pretty funny because I kept on talking about it all year long. And, seriously, just like six weeks ago probably, stephanie looked at me as she goes just go buy the trailer Like I've never you know, we've been married for almost 17 years Um, I've never seen you so stuck on something, stuck on something and so so invested in pursuing it. Um, you, you need to go and actually do this this time. Um, and to backtrack a little bit, uh, when I was working for my friend's company that did custom furniture, he, um, you know I was creating content every day, but I kept on feeling this uh, push to um, do something a little bit differently. And he gave me this phrase called create before you consume. And when, when he gave that to me, it was like this little blessing. 54:21 I've always thought that we're all mental, um, meaning, like, everything that we do it is dependent on what you say to yourself. So if you, you know, my, my son, if he speaks negatively about himself, I say, yeah, that's that's self. You know, that's self-fulfilling prophecy right there, like if you keep talking like that, for sure that's the way it's going to go. And and I've, you know, for several years, I've like 20 years I've thought about writing a book called we're All Mental, because we are. 55:00 - Speaker 1 You were in the middle of saying we're all mental, and that was in the context of I was saying you know what would you, how would you encourage? You know, how would you encourage someone into being creative? And I think you were going down a road of, like you know, positive self-talk, believing in yourself, you know, believing who God made you to be, believing who God made you to be. But I think if you can try to head down that thread and then we could wrap it kind of up with the encouragement of, like you know, believe in who God's made you to be, yeah, Okay. 55:32 - Speaker 2 So, to make it really, really simple, to just simplify it, because number one, we already know our purpose is to just tell people about Jesus and go and make disciples right. So that's our purpose, hands down. Now, if you are a person that feels like you need to be creative in what you're doing because that's the way our world is these days Everybody is a videographer, everybody's a photographer, everybody's a content creator If you are feeling led to be in the creative space, you have to spend time talking to yourself in a positive way that allows you to not only be you have to create a sense of urgency in what you're doing, but you also have to give yourself grace. So don't spend all of your time in the world of negative self-talk, but also don't spend all of your time in the world of thinking that you're you're perfect and that the grace is just all. Also, you need to hold yourself to a higher standard of of accomplishment. Um, example would be this this trailer is not yet in perfect operation. Uh, we learned that today when I got here. Um, we've, we've never, we've never done anything like this before Me and my company. We've never done this and, like I said earlier, that's pretty par for the course on my life. Like, I think that the only way to actually get into something is by doing something that you don't know how to do. Um, I didn't know how to GC adding a bathroom to my house, but I did it. Um, I didn't know how to play bass when I started. It's not like I went and took bass lessons. I my dad, was a bass player, so maybe I had a little bit of an advantage, uh, in the sense of, like, my dad was able to listen to the song that I needed to learn, listen to the song that I needed to learn and then teach it to me. 58:27 Um, but thought that we were going to be getting 32 miles a gallon on our propane powered bus, and we were getting less than 10. I want to say three, but that might be wrong. We made it across the border. So, the first time that we ever drove our bus which, by the way, we renovated with two couches, a love seat, a refrigerator, a home stereo system which, by the way, a home stereo system should not be on a bus way a home stereo system should not be on a bus. You can't play any CDs on a home stereo system when you're driving on the freeway in a bus, but the first time that we ever drove it was out of Arizona. Not only did we not know that the bus would not go faster than 55, we also did not know how many miles a gallon we were going to get in gas. But again, we made it all the way across the country and back because, even though we did not know what we were doing, we still figured it out. 59:39 And when, when I got the, I guess when we stopped recording I forgot to continue on with this. God gave me the phrase create before you consume, and I didn't do anything with it. We'll make this really short. I didn't follow through with that phrase, because he put it on my heart to actually start creating content. Because he put it on my heart to actually start creating content when I first woke up in the morning before I do anything else Create before you consume. And I didn't follow through with it. 01:00:14 And what ended up happening was I was listening to Gary V, which, if you're in the world of social media, you know who Gary V is. I was listening to Gary V and he had this lady on named Marie Forleo, and Marie Forleo, who I'd never heard of before got the attention of Gary Vee and I was like, oh, now I need to know who this lady is. So I'm listening to her and Gary asked her a question and she goes you know what? What I do, what I follow, is the idea of create before you consume. And at that moment, when I was listening to that podcast, it was like God just slapped me right upside the head and I was like I gave that to you. And I was like, well, you gave it to me and I, I was going to do something with it. I, me, and I was going to do something with it. I was going to do it, God. And he goes no, you weren't. So I gave it to somebody who would, and I don't know if theologically, that's the right frame of mind, but in that moment that was the last really big aha moment I had when it came to creative. Until this mm-hmm. 01:01:31 And for a lot of years I moved through with a little bit of frustration in the idea of that create before you consume being lost to Marie. But back to what I was saying Marie Forleo, marie for Forleo has gone on to do a lot of different things, but in the end, when this idea came to me, of this mobile podcasting idea. It was like God was just like do this. And even though I continuously think, like I did on my way here, that I am not capable of this, I know for a fact that God has me and my best interest at heart, and if this fails, he's got something else for me. But what he wanted to do and I think that this is entirely true for me but what he wanted to do and I think that this is entirely true he will give you what you're willing to step into. Um and so, every step of the way, when I didn't know what I was doing and I still stepped into it, he was like, yes, I'll bless this. 01:02:40 And so if I continuously step into the next venture, whatever it may be, if this podcasting thing really blows up and we need multiple trailers and stuff like that I'll step into it, because I know that I am capable of following through on what God has placed on my heart. This is not all that I know how to do. In fact, I would really like to own a port-a-potty company someday, but that's a whole nother, a whole, nother conversation. I I know that if I step into the door that he cracks open, that he's going to have me and, even if there's speed bumps or hiccups or stumbles along the way, that he's going to be there to follow through and he has me no matter what. So, in in all, I think that if you are a person that wants to be an entrepreneur, or you want to own a business or you want to start something creative, just go out and do it. 01:03:51 If you don't know what you're doing, it actually benefits you, because I know for a fact that Bob Gurr, who worked directly with Walt Disney he was responsible for every single wheeled machine at Disneyland and Disney World. He designed and developed the monorail. When he is asked, how did you know you could do it? His answer is always we didn't know, we couldn't. And you have to be enough of an idiot to think that you can. But also know that there's a strong possibility that it won. 01:04:51 If you enter into it through what God has placed on your heart and you know that you're going to lean on him and what you do through him, it is possible. Even if it doesn't work out monetarily speaking, it actually doesn't matter, because every step of the way, you are not only getting closer to him, but you're also getting closer to the person that he has called you to be. And so, if you are a creative, if you desire to be creative, and maybe you're working a desk job or cubicle job, you're answering phones all the time and all you want to do is be creative, just step out and step into it and also know that you have the time to do it. You just have to prioritize it. If you don't prioritize yourself in this equation, then you are continuously going to be stuck. If you don't take the time to improve upon what it is you want to do, then you will forever be stuck doing something that you don't want to do. Then you will forever be stuck doing something that you don't want to do. 01:06:08 - Speaker 1 So that's that. I think that's a good exhortation and benediction for our time together and thank you so much. I hope Magic will do it again and I will also link and post some ways that people can check out what you're doing with the trailer. Check out on Instagram, youtube, all those things. But yeah, I wish you the best of luck and obviously I talk to you every week so you get to hear more about it soon. Thanks so much for sharing some of your life with us and some of your wisdom, and appreciate it so much. Yeah, man, thanks for having me. All right, let's do it Later, see ya. Thanks for listening. 01:06:47 If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with another pastor or ministry leader who you think might benefit from this conversation. And if you're looking for more tools and resources to help you preach and lead with confidence, be sure to check out sermoncentral.com/podcast. Sermon Central is the largest online resource hub for pastors and ministry leaders. 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