One Church, Two Languages: The Beauty and Balance of Bilingual Ministry

00:02 - Speaker 1 Pastor Josue is someone I've gotten to know over the past few years and I got to tell you he's amazing and in this conversation we're going to talk through his journey as a bilingual pastor here in Phoenix. He's been a part of his congregation for many, many years In fact, they just celebrated their 14th anniversary and he's just got tons of amazing insights 14th anniversary and he's just got tons of amazing insights. So if you're someone who's ever thought about hosting a bilingual service or opening a bilingual campus or any of those types of things, this is going to be a great episode to listen to, as Josue has some hard-earned wisdom, some great stories and just some incredible insight as he continues to lead his church. So listen in. We're happy to have you, pastor Josue. It's good to have you on the podcast today. It's a pleasure, as I've gotten to know you over the past few years. I just see someone who loves being a pastor, has a joy in ministry, and I so appreciate that about you and I'm really grateful that you could be here with us today. 01:13 Churches try a lot and that more churches are trying, but that is the concept and idea of a bilingual service, which you've been doing now for 14 years. Is that right? Or is it longer? That's right? 14 years, 14 years? So bilingual, I would say bilingual, 14 years, yes, amazing. So yeah, bilingual services. And so I'm just super hopeful that as we talk, you can give us all the wisdom and knowledge that you have on this topic. You know, which is probably so much, but before we get into the weeds on that, I would love if you would share just some more about your story, even what first drew you to ministry. 02:06 - Speaker 2 Yes. 02:07 Well thank you for having me, Matt. This is a pleasure to be with you. I grew up in a Christian home. My dad was a pastor and my decision was to not be a pastor. That was my main point in life. I have a degree in business administration, work in Mexico for six years for the government over there and to somebody appears in my life who changed my view and invite me to a Planet Church in Chandler. So we pray about it and we moved to America in December of 2004. 02:44 My wife and my three-year-old boy and we started helping the Planet Church 100% and Spanish in Chandler, arizona, and we helped that congregation for five years, leading worship and doing youth ministry. That was my main point and I was doing some missions trip here and there with another church there too. So that's how we came to America. That's how I grew up. I gave my life to the Lord when I was 15 years old and that's when I had the understanding of the gospel really. So I have a really good heart and I really have a love for the youth crowd a lot and the next generation. So I came to America and worked with doing worship something that I love a lot to do and the youth ministry. So we did it for four years, until 2010 is when we moved to Mesa and started thinking to plant a church that we don't know like what kind of church it was, but we saw a big need of English and Spanish church. So what we did in the beginning was to have Bible studies in two different languages and then we met on Sunday to have a worship time together. But lingual worship is easy and it's fun too. Everyone wants to try to sing in a different language. But then we divided the groups to teach in English and Spanish and what we saw is like we're kind of dividing the families because we have different generations in America, where people with different understanding of English too, like myself as a first generation, who grew up in Mexico, came here as an older guy. Then my kids, who are second generation one of them born here and both of my kids are bilingual. They understand very well the language. So finally we decide to do a bilingual service and we're like we don't know what to do. 04:55 It was hard to find information outside of us, like who is doing this and how they're doing it. So we tried the first time and the people in the church kind of love it. We felt like, for the first time, the people in the church kind of love it. We felt like, for the first time, we felt like this is family. And so we saw the first generation parents loving the way they can be seated in the same place and somebody's teaching the Bible and they're learning together. And this one, when I see the God open my eyes, like this is a big beauty and this is a big need, especially in our communities with immigrants. So, and this one, we decided, okay, from now on beyond, we're going to be a bilingual church, and that's how we decided to be bilingual and that's how I get in the world of bilingual church too, and multicultural overall too that's amazing, so in your story. 05:53 - Speaker 1 So if I'm picking up what you're saying, right, and this is this is so insightful, I think but what you're saying is the language, even the understanding maybe deteriorates from like a first generation to a second generation, to a third generation. And so are you saying even that in a congregation or in a family that there begins to be a disconnect, like the further you get away from the native language. 06:20 - Speaker 2 Yes, yes, it's sad, yes, yes, and it's sad and as part of the culture that we live so fast to part of the parents and my community having two jobs and not having enough time to spend with their kids to practice their English or practice the Spanish for the kids. So the kids, as soon as they start going to school, they're going to pick the language right away and for that point and beyond, it's more easy for them to keep speaking in English. So I can see in my church people where their parents speak Spanish to the kids and the kids answer to them in English. So we have this weird mixed communication and it's not clear. It's hard to speak to my kids in one language. Now I try to mix the two languages and it's sad too, because you miss a lot of opportunities to teach your kids well, but it's a big need. Communication is a big problem in our community because of that Yep man, I bet in our community because of that Yep man. 07:26 - Speaker 1 I bet you could tell stories about that, yeah, so another part of your story that was interesting to me is so you were in Mexico and you met someone who lived in Chandler area or in Phoenix, basically yeah. And then that person, how did that work for you? You got to know them and they said hey, you seem to be a pastor. Why don't you come up to my church? Or like, how did that sense of calling? How did that work out for you? 07:56 - Speaker 2 So I lost my dad in 1999 and that summer and in November I met this guy who was sent from a church in Gilbert to raise some help, to raise leaders in my church. So he helped me in the process of losing my dad, reconnecting with God, and we spent a couple of years in a good relationship, in a discipleship relationship, with him. When I got married the next day he got a new job in Gilbert as a missions pastor and then he started thinking like we need to start a Spanish church here and I know a person. So he started inviting me and that was like two years of period of like bucking forward. Finally we got a visa, of period of like bucking forward. Finally we got a visa. And then we came to America through a religious visa to help. 08:50 My whole point was helping, not to be a pastor. That was my story, like no, I don't want to be a pastor, I want to be a worship guy who does youth ministry. But God changed my heart through the years, more mature too. But yeah, this guy helped me to come here to America and me and him and another guy we plant a church in Chandler. That church is still going there, but it's 100% in Spanish, but yeah so. But I saw the need. Like, once the kids are 15 years old, they don't want to come to our church. It's only in Spanish because they don't understand and they like the cultural but they don't understand the language and they don't want to try. So it's frustrating for them to go into these kinds of churches. So that was when we moved to Mesa is when we're thinking like, well, maybe bilingual that helped that generation to come to church. 09:53 - Speaker 1 So that goes back to you're hitting again on this difficulty with the language and the frustration. Yes, so, huh, that's interesting. Can you, as we think about the bilingual service, would you mind sharing? You know even, um, and I've gotten to see you speak a few times now, so I I kind of get it. But for someone who doesn't know, what would life in a bilingual church look like, or feel like, so, like on a typical Sunday, um, what is? What does it look like If someone was just walking in? What would they experience? 10:30 - Speaker 2 Our idea, our plan, our goal is anybody who lives in our community can come to our building and to our services and understand In our community pretty much. We speak English and Spanish. We don't have any other language around us close to here, so anybody who lives close in our community can come to our services and understand at least 80%, because we're translating and you lose something. We know that. So typically we have two services and both of them they're bilingual. 11:09 - Speaker 1 They always ask me yeah, I was going to say they're the same right they're the same. 11:13 - Speaker 2 They're the same. Yeah, and there is a reason why In one part of our life we try one English and then one bilingual. And what we did is we divided church, bilingual. And what we did is we divided the church Like all the, because it's not only bilingual but it's multicultural too. So we have different cultures in our church and we divide it and we say no, no, no, it's not what we want to. 11:39 So to do that, we need to give both services bilingual. So always it's somebody with me and the other side, if I'm speaking in Spanish, he's saying in English, and normally every other week we have somebody preaching to Spanish, to English. The next week is going to be English to Spanish. So people feel like, okay, I'm connected, and I'm connecting with that leader too, and one Sunday I'm going to get the a hundred percent. The next Sunday I'm connected and I'm connected with that leader too, and one Sunday I'm going to get the 100%. The next Sunday I'm going to have the 80%. But I love my family. 12:11 There's different church. So that's what we do every other week and everything on the services bilingual. Except the classes for the kids and the youth ministry, everything is in English for them. So if we have a kid who only speaks Spanish, we help that kid, we put somebody to help that kid, but everything we try to do bilingual on Sundays. So from the songs to communion, to the sermon, to the benediction, everything you're going to understand what we're saying and you said so, the kids. 12:54 - Speaker 1 is that because of what you brought up earlier, where the kids, the generations, get less and less in touch with their language? Yeah, that's right. So it just doesn't make as much sense to try to do bilingual. 13:06 - Speaker 2 Like we do all the kids ministry, youth ministry, english, and we do like our community groups, small groups we do in different languages English or Spanish because people want to talk there and can be so hard if everybody wants to like translate everything. So we decided to do it in that way English and Spanish and it's very helpful. 13:32 - Speaker 1 Now you brought up something that I 100% agree with. But the worship, the worship is so fun to go, you know, to sing through a what would you call it, a stanza or a verse and then a chorus. So you're doing that in English verse, chorus and then verse chorus, spanish, and you kind of flip back and forth. Yes, and you've been doing that a long time, right, and that's how you guys do it on Sunday. 13:56 - Speaker 2 Yeah, we've been doing this for a long time. Normally, if we're singing in Spanish, the biggest, the big lyrics are in Spanish, but you can read in English in the bottom, like what are you saying? So you understand what you're singing. 14:14 - Speaker 1 So in that way you display both, both languages. 14:18 - Speaker 2 Yeah, and that's that's helpful. So because pretty much you're singing half of the song in your language but you're understanding 100% or 80% of the song in your own language and it's fun and I see people trying. Let me tell you, I got committed to sing more hymns in my church for the last year. It's really hard. All English is really hard to sing. So when I'm leading worship that word is really hard. I just go back to the microphone make the congregation sing that part and then I come back to the microphone and sing the rest, because really some words are really hard to say. 14:59 - Speaker 1 You said old English. 15:01 - Speaker 2 Yeah, old English Not fun to sing or try to understand, but it's a big beauty in the hymn so that I want to bring it to the church. 15:13 - Speaker 1 Do you see so your experience of seeing, you know, when you look out and you see different families that you know, do you see them like really enjoying getting to sing together? I mean, that's got to be an amazing sight. 15:25 - Speaker 2 You know, for an immigrant, like really enjoying getting to sing together. I mean, that's got to be an amazing sight, you know, for an immigrant who don't spoke the main language here, being with their kids and learning together or singing together it's heaven, you know, for them right there, right here, it's heaven. Finally, I feel like I'm part of this. I'm part of the family and I feel more connected with God when my family understands too. So, and it's a sensation that I really experienced being an immigrant going to Mexico and taking my kids to my church over there, and they're bilingual but I understand. Everything is just relaxing, but living here is different for us. But so, yeah, definitely a beautiful sensation and beautiful to see those on our church. 16:25 - Speaker 1 This is a random question, but do you, is there a difference? Like a lot of you know, when you preach a lot of people, a lot of pastors would say, yeah, preaching takes a lot out of me. Like you give you know, a lot of pastors take a Sunday afternoon nap. Let's say, do you find that if you, when you host a bilingual service, is that even more tiring than if you were just to do it only in Spanish? 16:49 - Speaker 2 Yes, and you need to educate yourself to concentrate in one language, because if I'm waiting for the other guy who's interpreting for me to say, it can be very tiring. You know, you're making your brain work so much hard. So what I normally do, I say something and then I go to my notes and keep going, keep going to the flow and trusting to the Lord that the Lord, God, is going to preach well to the other people too. So I feel like trusting in the Lord helped me to not have a big Sunday burnout. So yeah, even for the people who come here that are bilingual, you need to train your brain to like, hey, shut down one of those languages and pick one and keep focusing on that one so you can get it good. 17:43 - Speaker 1 That's a really good tip for someone listening, you know, to really try to minimize the fatigue, because even if you do two services and you were to try to pay attention, so two services times two languages, that's like four services. 17:58 - Speaker 2 Yes, yes, so that would be tiring, yeah, sometimes they don't say what I'm saying because they don't have the whole. They have all my notes. So for one of my interpreters, I send my notes by Thursday so they can practice, they can translate if they want to. But sometimes they say something that I'm not saying and I correct that one, and sometimes they say it in a better way than I'm saying it and I'm like, oh oh, I say that that sounds good. So that's part of the life too. And this is the other thing. 18:35 Because of that, we're going to make some mistakes in the stage and from some churches they want to have everything perfect. I know we're doing for the Lord and we're trying, but humans, so part of that to understanding that we're going to have mistakes is okay for our church and it's very relaxed in that regard. So when we make a correction, people laugh, but it's a good laugh. People okay, yeah, okay, we keep going, yeah, okay, we keep going. So in that we're a very friendly environment on Sundays to have those mistakes, they're going to happen. 19:14 - Speaker 1 I love what you just said, because that's been my experience is the bilingual, multicultural environment is just a very welcoming one and it's a little more lighthearted. I guess I would say it that way. It's a little more. You just said it really well, but if you're ever in a service and you can feel when that service is being run like everything has to be perfect and right on the nose, whereas these bilingual services or situations where there's a translator, they do end up being more lighthearted and somewhat, I would even say somewhat, more enjoyable, because maybe it's more relatable. I mean, that's your experience, it's a human, more human service. 19:58 - Speaker 2 You know, we're not like machines to do it perfect. No, we're humans, and I feel like that makes a very friendly environment for the people. Well, like machines too, they do it perfect. No, we're humans, and I feel like that makes a very friendly environment for the people. But at the same time, we're serious about the gospel, and the gospel is the most important thing. So I can explain our services as like different feelings during the service, like joy, but also like conviction. 20:33 - Speaker 1 So it's part of our culture and how do you? Speaking of cultures? So you obviously have different languages, but it's multicultural. What is your thought process on Sunday? Thinking through the different cultures in the room and it just even as I'm talking to you, I'm realizing there's so much to think about. And that's not to say that there's not a lot to think about in every service, but in a bilingual service. So how do you handle some of that? 21:02 - Speaker 2 Especially when I'm doing the applications, I need to think, like double, how this is going to hit for somebody who grew up here, who understand the culture, or somebody who just came here or somebody who has 20 years here. So I need to make sure that everybody understands those applications. So for me, it's really good when I send my notes and I get an email like hey, I don't understand this very well, what are you talking about? Like when I make a joke that is very funny in Spanish but not make any sense in English. Those kind of situations you need to be aware of those. You need to prepare for who you're talking to. 21:47 So, um, yeah, maybe team double, but it's you got practice with with the years. You know, and even in our church we have maybe like 12 different countries from latin america and they're very different from each other. So not everybody is Mexican and even they don't like what they call Mexicans still. So I need to make sure that I'm hitting all these different countries. They're all reunited in something. So I'm always looking for those points where, oh, we're doing the same here. 22:26 - Speaker 1 Maybe that's where the emphasis on just the gospel is so powerful. Yes, because it's like you could spend. I mean, you could spend so much time trying to figure out, like you just said, like even a simple joke, and you're thinking to yourself well man, the folks from Mexico are going to get this, but the folks from Argentina, they're going to be mad at me, yeah. Or the people from Chandler or Gilbert, they're not going to get this at all, yeah. But if you, for all that, the gospel translates every time Exactly. 23:06 - Speaker 2 This is the thing Gospel translates every time Exactly. This is the thing and the main point for everybody, and the same thing that unites us all is we are sinners and the gospel is our solution and Jesus is our solution. So we want to bring Jesus always in the middle and I always tell people on Sundays like you know, we're here because of Jesus and we have this beautiful opportunity to meet other people and be around these different cultures and everything, but it's because of Jesus. So that's the beauty and the most important thing that we have in our church. 23:42 - Speaker 1 Yes, and along those lines, what you just said continue. Is there anything that sticks out in your mind as one of the most beautiful and amazing aspects of running a bilingual service? We talked about worship a little bit, but is there something else? 24:00 - Speaker 2 Yes, If you're a part of a church, you need to understand that your priorities they're not going to be always in the top, so you need to make sure that you love your neighbor well and I love when people got that. And I love when, like I would say, if we have two in a row Spanish and Spanish they're not complaining, but if we have two in English they're not complaining. But because we have love to each other. So we see each other as humans, not just different cultures or different languages, but humans. Love is very important in our church that make us to feel part of God's kingdom and the beauty of God's kingdom. So, yeah, I would say, because the sad part in our churches in America is everybody's looking about what worship I want to or what speaker I want to, or what ministry for my kids I want to. They're not wrong things, but those are our preference. Always they're not saying I'm going to this church because this is my community and my community looks like this. So yeah, it's something that I really love in our church. 25:22 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and so you have a lot of people who are willing to be flexible and to buy into a neighborly expression of the faith, exactly which is beautiful, so, like to the point of what we're saying. So then the gospel has to remain primary, has to be, has to be difficult things that we could talk about going to be difficult things that we could talk about. So, with that in mind, what's specifically difficult? Or have you seen with the bilingual congregation and managing a bilingual, you know, group services, et cetera. 26:20 - Speaker 2 Definitely one of the biggest challenges is to try to set aside our privilege. Biggest challenge is to try to set aside our privilege. Even we talk that's one of our main things, but it was one of the biggest challenge too. When somebody comes new here and go through that process, to set aside some of the privilege that these people have, can be a leader, can be a new believer these people has Can be a leader, can be a new believer. We always have those privileges that we want to keep in front of us, but it's a good challenge. 26:56 The other challenge is, like a lot of everyone here, they have different jobs and sometimes they work on Sundays and as part of their life it's what they do and they don't have regular jobs and sometimes they work on Sundays and as part of their life is what they do and is they don't have regular jobs sometimes. So we have like two Sundays where the church is full and then the other two when it's kind of empty, but that people are still part of our church. That's the life of the community, the immigrant community who comes to our church. It's just like that. So in that it's really hard to keep the momentum going always. So yeah, and for sure I can talk about politics and different One of you. 27:51 That's always a challenge. Anything that's a scare in the news. For some of our people, too, it's a legit scare and fear. So we pray for them, and so that's a challenge. Um, where you are in a community like us, financial is a challenge too. Um, it's not an. It's not a. It's a challenge. Let's put it that way and always provide for us so yeah, those are good. 28:30 - Speaker 1 Those are good things to bring up. Um, I thought especially this idea of the privilege. You know, having to work through that um and, as there's probably been, but you know, different misunderstandings or specific points of frustration that have helped shaped how you do things now. 28:48 - Speaker 2 Was there anything early on that you learned that you, that you thought, okay, I gotta, I gotta be careful about that or I gotta pay attention to that yes, I felt like so it's two things to be bilingual, because you could be a bilingual church but one culture, and then, and even you can be a bilingual church but one culture, and then and even you can be a bilingual Mexican church, and there is some here, but we are multicultural, so that adds a little bit more challenge too. So it's not about only one culture, but different cultures and you add the bilingual thing. So that's, I would say, the first five years. 29:32 We're trying to figure it out and we're kind of we try to focus in the two main cultures here in our community, but then God bring different people from different countries, and now they're part of our church. Bring different people from different countries, and now they're part of our church. So that was one of our learning curves too, to how we treat people, how we're talking in front of people, because not everybody celebrates Cinco de Mayo, so we need to add more stuff to that, you know. So not even Mexicans celebrate Cin, not even Mexican celebration, but we can do another podcast for that one. But there's different cultures here, so we need to embrace those culture too and bring it to the table and make it feel like you're part of this and you are important here too. So I would say the first five years took us a lot to figure it out, that kind of stuff. 30:32 - Speaker 1 So that is such a good point. I have a friend of mine who was at a bilingual church and their lead pastor was from Brazil, and so in a similar sense, you know, you can't just lump if we're just talking specifically about speaking Spanish, you can't just lump everybody into one group and go, oh well, they all speak Spanish. Yeah, because, to your point, that's so many different cultures and there's so much nuance in the language and the wording and the little you brought up what I thought was a great point. But joking right, humor, yeah, humor is super nuanced and so you know, to your point, so it's a specific joke that you may be telling in Spanish, it may the Mexican community may go. Oh yeah, that's hilarious. 31:26 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 31:26 - Speaker 1 But then the Brazilian community goes. That doesn't even make any sense to us. 31:30 - Speaker 2 Yeah. And and that line has got to be, that line has got to be so like you got to be so careful about that, yeah, so kind of aware what are you saying, and also really faces in front of you like, oh, I'm not going to say that so anymore, anyway, yeah. 31:50 - Speaker 1 Yeah. So you have to stick to. So this gets to something that I love about the bilingual services. You have to really stick to. I already said this you have to stick to the gospel, but then you have to stick to presenting the information and just a very straightforward way, which I think is a good argument for, like, when you get to preach. Very straightforward way, which I think is a good argument for, like, when you get to preach. Very straightforwardly, it is very accessible to everybody and I think that that's a strength, not a weakness. 32:19 - Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yes. For somebody who's going to a different church and can be a lot of lecture in that church, coming to here, you're going to feel like, oh, that's so basic. Well, the gospel is very basic, you know, yes. So we try to always communicate as much clear as we can be while we say anything, so that the main point is still the gospel. 32:49 - Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, that's what I'm agreeing with you. It actually has been a funny journey as my kids have gotten older. And I've met your kids I know you have kids as well but as my kids have gotten older, getting to hear them talk about the church service or getting to listen to different people and then asking them after the fact, you know, oh, what did you think or what did you like about it. And it's so interesting because they because they really like and appreciate a more straightforward presentation and they say and it comes over and over again, they don't, they don't want a bunch of different um, they don't want a bunch of different illustrations, they don't want a bunch of different random rabbit trails and roads that we go down. It's just like they just they just say, oh yeah, that that was a really good sermon. And you go, oh, that's interesting, what made it really good? They go, they say, well, I understood what they were saying. Wow. 33:52 - Speaker 2 Yeah. 33:54 - Speaker 1 Yeah, and that you know. Speaking of the bilingual services, again it has to be a very straightforward presentation because you just can't take a bunch of random tangents. 34:09 - Speaker 2 You have to stay pretty focused, actually if you like, I do script my whole sermon because I try to be under 40 minutes. So it's like 24 minutes in one language and the rest is interpretation. So it's not double but it's close to double. But if I start saying something that is not in my script I can last easy five minutes there. And now you make your sermon longer and longer and because it's bilingual it can be tiring for the people and you see they're going to disconnect right away. So we need to be on point and you see they're going to disconnect right away. So we need to be on point and like clear where we're going. So it's not, it's not like tired and so I think that's a good word for anybody listening. 34:58 - Speaker 1 I mean, that's just good preaching, preaching encouragements. So if we move, let's move to some of that encouragement for someone listening who may be thinking about starting a bilingual service or maybe is toying with the idea. So, as someone who's done it for quite some time and experienced, I'm sure, seasons of joy and then seasons of heartache in it, what advice would you give someone who's considering starting a bilingual ministry? 35:26 - Speaker 2 What advice would you give someone who's considering starting a bilingual ministry? First, like know well your community. Like for some churches, it does not make any sense to have a bilingual services where there's no people around there. So make sure that your community is multicultural and bilingual so you can start a service or church like that. Be willing to walk the extra mile or two. These ministries take so much time. They're not growing like quickly and easy. Takes so much time. So be willing to walk the extra mile. Be open to have new flavors in your plate, New expression of music and be willing to try different stuff that you're going to have a surprise. You're going to like it maybe, but you need to be willing to do that kind of stuff and also make sure that always Jesus is in the middle, because if not, the economics and politics and all that kind of stuff is going to get in the way and going to move your focus. Where you really want to do that is preaching the gospel. 36:42 - Speaker 1 So if Jesus is in the center, that ministry is going to grow and yeah, would it be your opinion that people don't understand how much time it takes or how difficult it is to grow a bilingual community? 37:02 - Speaker 2 Yes, especially because in America we love numbers and we love charts and we love like goals and none of those are wrong. But sometimes they don't apply to a culture. We, as a Latino culture, we're not time oriented, but we always start on time, always we start on time and we try to end on time too, because we want to respect the culture that is in America. But if we start talking you and me I can talk for a long time. So make sure the podcast is not going to be long, because I can talk, but it's part of my culture and if I go longer or if you go longer, I don't feel like you're not respecting my time. So make sure that you understand those kind of stuff that for some people can be very frustrating. 38:03 So we don't measure how we do here. How you measure two people they're different cultures and different languages worshiping Jesus in the same building on Sunday? There's no measure for that. We can say two, okay, if you want a number, we have two. Are you happy with that? But the love and the gospel and the encouragement for each other how you measure that? So there's no measure for that? 38:31 - Speaker 1 Yeah, I love what you're saying there. And is that? What do you think? Or is or is that? Would that be your answer? Like what could the broader church learn from the way the bilingual community worships together and the way the bilingual community has to work together? 38:49 - Speaker 2 Oh, it's a good question. I feel like it's not for everybody, but I feel like everybody can get involved in different ways. So if there's a bilingual church close to you, to your church, make sure you guys are participating in some ways to that church and different ways to support prayer, friendship with them, welcoming to the neighborhood. Yeah, it's not for everybody, but make sure that you're participating in some ways. Yeah, and that's unique to America, but make sure that you participate in some ways. Yeah, and that's unique to America. Where God brings all the nation here. The bilingual and multicultural is very unique to this country. So we don't do bilingual services in my city maybe one or two, because there is some Anglo folks living there that they need that, but here it's different. Everywhere you're going to find somebody who spoke a different language or has a different culture than you. 40:01 - Speaker 1 Have you ever counseled someone? Has someone ever come to you and they've wanted to start this type of community? Have you ever counseled someone and told them don't do that. 40:12 - Speaker 2 No, no, not at that point. I had somebody who came to me and wants to serve in kids' ministry. But that person told me, like, and everybody? This person told me that if everybody is legal here, she can do it. If somebody has a different status, it's not for her. And I told her, like, we don't value or have those measures in the church. Everybody's a senior, like you and me. So for sure this ministry is not for you. Yeah, but not a pastor or ministry. I helped to plant a church in San Antonio. A group of people from there came to our church and learned what we're doing there and the whole process on Sundays and everything. Now they're running a bilingual church over there. 41:13 - Speaker 1 That's amazing. Okay, I got another random question for you. So, along with encouragement, vision, etc. But have you found a specific way? How am I going to ask you this? But have you found, is there a specific way to meet with people of multiple different cultures and different ethnicities? Like cultures, ethnicities, languages, all these different things? Is it? Is it inviting them out to lunch? Is it having a potluck? Is it a phone call? Like what do you? What do you think is, like, the, the most straightforward way to spend time and get to know the different folks in a community like this? 41:59 - Speaker 2 Yeah, let's say, for somebody who's in a works environment and somebody's from a different country, the best way to connect with that people for me is sharing a meal, and we're always very proud of our meals and our food and we try to explain the flavors and everything. That's part of who we are. So that's an easy way to connect with people. But it needs to feel like it's a genuine thing that you're doing it because you care for the soul of the people, not because I need to do it. And because you care for the soul of the people, not because I need to do it because you're here. So, and even we don't spoke the same language, we can feel some stuff that we understand very well. 42:51 Rejection is one of them, like right away. I see when I try to speak somebody in Home Depot and they don't want to talk to me because they know I have a broken English. So I feel it right away like okay, he don't want to help me. So I move on. So make sure the expressions and you put in attention and make that person has value, because it's God's creation in the end, no matter what, yeah, but uh. So when you see the beauty in that person and their cultural for sure they want to share with you and they're going to start a conversation with you and they're going to have a relationship with you. 43:33 - Speaker 1 so yeah, you just said such a powerful thing, which is that there is not a ton of things that transfer over to every culture, but one of them is rejection, oh yeah, and that is something that we can all feel, and so be careful. 43:52 - Speaker 2 I got a 22 years experience of rejection here, two years of experience of rejection here. It's part of our ministry, I understand that, and it's part of I'm an immigrant here. I understand that. But sometimes it can be really hard. Sometimes it feels like, yeah, you're less, so yeah. 44:16 - Speaker 1 I thought something you were sharing with me not on the podcast, but something you were sharing with me which I thought was really insightful too is that when you are trying to speak to someone who speaks a different language or not your primary language, that you can end up feeling not as smart. If they could only knew how smart I was as a Spanish speaker. Because when you're trying to transfer over and speak in a different language, you do have to go slower or you make mistakes or just all the things that maybe make you sound not as smart as you really are. And I think that's another piece of you know being more understanding and more merciful and graceful for other people. 45:03 - Speaker 2 So, yeah, In some ways those people are bilingual. Most of the people speak only one language, so in some way those people are sometimes more smart than us. I have in my church people they come from little village in Guatemala. They are trilingual, they know that language and because they came here, spanish was easier to learn than English. So it's very super smart. People Come on three languages. I barely can on three languages. I barely can speak two. I barely can speak spanish. So that's right. But yeah, yeah, the idea to to not be able to communicate fully, it's frustrating and sometimes part of the sanctification process of Jesus and us to make us humble, you know. So I'm waiting in a day where I don't need to be bilingual and just speak to Jesus and everybody and God's kingdom in the same language. 46:12 - Speaker 1 Yes, amen, amen, all right. 46:41 - Speaker 2 Amen, all right when we, um, as we come kind of to the end, I want to hear you share about. So when we, when we visited the church, you guys were having a celebration and that was amazing and you were. It was very welcoming. But then I heard about that you guys do carne asada on Easter. So I just want to hear more about this carne asada easter celebration that you have. Yes, um, as I was saying, food is very important. Food provide for us a space where meet people and to know people and to share to each other, uh, whatever they want to bring to that table. So it's very interesting because we don't want to come with empty hands, so everybody wants to bring and feel part of this thing. So Easter is a big celebration and I know the culture here. 47:14 Normally the families meet in the afternoon and they have a meal, but in Latin America it's different. The church meet is the most important meeting that we have on Sunday. So we took that one and always have a carne asada. It's a good deal and people love that. We divided to marinate or not marinate the carne asada, but we still love each other and we share it with flour tortillas and corn tortillas too, and spicy salsas and not spicy salsas, but it's a big, big celebration and Jesus is in the middle and also creates a big opportunity to serve each other. You have people cooking, then you have people cleaning and then you have people talking to each other and trying to make the new people feel welcome. So just create this big opportunity of serving and loving and celebrating Jesus and celebrating Jesus. 48:18 - Speaker 1 Which again is like if could there be a better Easter message? Yeah, then everything you just said. So I, I love it. I think yeah, it was. It was amazing, do you? That's gotta be the busiest Sunday that you have. 48:34 - Speaker 2 Yeah, that one, and our Sunday celebration too, our anniversary. Those two are the biggest party that we throw up and people know about those Sundays too. Yeah, it's a big party. But also we do meals every month in different ways. One is the first Wednesday. We always have a community dinner where we invite our community center, the people that take ESL classes and citizenship classes. They're part of the community. They come to those meals and we share a meal together and it's a big potluck meeting and then we do worship or we do different teachings. So in Christmas we do a big night of games. So that kind of stuff is the first Wednesday every month. But also a youth ministry. They do meals once a month on Sundays in a way to raise funds for summer camps, but also we provide a way for them to serve our church, to serve the meal and clean the church. So it's a good interaction between adults and the young crowd. They know the names and so it's a beautiful interaction that we provide through those meals Wow. 50:00 - Speaker 1 I hope that everybody listening takes notes on everything you just said. That's a beautiful expression of the community. So my last question for you is is there anything that gives you hope for the future of bilingual, multicultural congregations in our city but in America? And I want to preface that by saying something you and I talked about recently was that this is something that so many churches talk about doing and try doing, but very few persist in doing so I'm curious what you see is what's encouraging you about kind of this type of community and how you see it growing. 50:49 - Speaker 2 I am very blessed to be a part of a network of churches that believe in our ministry and support our ministry in different ways, and one of them is encouragement to me and praying for me and checking to me and also learning from me too. So I feel part of that table and, as an immigrant leader, I feel like I'm putting in also in this state and this city too, with all my brothers and sisters. So I'm very blessed to be part of that network. That encouraged me. So that brings me a lot of hope for the future, a lot of hope that there are still leaders and pastors who really care for their community, not in particular for one cultural, but for the whole community. So that's very encouraging, and I see other ministries doing that too, not only here in Arizona, but I have friends in Chicago and Miami and Houston connecting with other churches and different churches and planting multicultural churches too. 52:03 - Speaker 1 So, and I love that- so, yep, well, like you said earlier, we were talking about one day there won't be a language barrier and one day, you know, we'll be eating carne asada every day. Yes, yes, yes. Carne asada every day, yes, yes, that would be my vote. 52:22 - Speaker 2 It is. It is what we do. 52:24 - Speaker 1 You know I like a good, uh good, carne asada street tacos. I hope that the the you know the what does revelation say? Streets of gold. And I hope they're filled with a street taco vendors. Never ending buffets yeah, that would be good but man buffets here are crazy dude. 52:46 - Speaker 2 Yeah, from from from argentina to guatemala, to colombia, to el salvador, peru. Yeah they're, they're amazing. 52:56 - Speaker 1 You need to count one of those oh, yeah, well, yeah, well, even, like you said, if everybody feels like they want to bring something to the table. You know, and even when we were at your celebration, you know, there was like six different guacamole bowls. 53:12 - Speaker 2 Yes, yes. 53:13 - Speaker 1 And you're just thinking like wow, what yeah, so many different flavors. 53:20 - Speaker 2 And also it was an American food that we twist a little bit, because we did brisket. Oh, that's true, probably American, but we did taco brisket. 53:30 - Speaker 1 Yeah, which was unbelievable. It's just bringing redemption to the food. You know that's right, Amen, You're making me so hungry food. You know that's right, Amen, You're making me so hungry. But I think, even from your perspective. I'm just thinking about how beautiful what you're saying about the table. The table is where we can come together. Food is something that translates any culture, any congregation. And food, the table, the food it breaks down walls for us. So if I invite you into my home and we share a meal together, it's a vulnerable place and it shows another person, another family, like, hey, I want to invite you into my home, into my family, and I want to cook for you. 54:16 - Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to share one of my future ideas and I'm still planning and praying about it, but I want to do a month of Tu Casa Es Mi Casa. 54:28 Oh yeah, and people in the church invite to each other and hear the stories and hear the conversations, and I want to force them to go and get out of the comfort zone to those who don't speak the same languages. Come on, let's do it. Let's do it. So I'm praying about it because it's going to be a big commitment. It's one thing to do it all together, but now let's go to your houses. Mi casa es tu casa, so I want to work in that one. 55:01 - Speaker 1 I love that idea. I want to push the people to go far and beyond, to just Sundays, yeah, Well, yeah, because even once we start sharing a home with someone else, I mean that really says I trust you, you're my family and yeah, that's a beautiful idea. And then we get to have a bunch of good food. 55:23 - Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly. 55:25 - Speaker 1 What could be bad about that? So well? Thank you so much for being with us and sharing and I do pray that anybody listening will be finding encouragement. And you're at Redemption Mesa, so if anybody's listening and they're around in town they can find you online right Redemption Mesa. I'll share a URL if anybody wants to check that out and see kind of learn more. And then, if someone wants to contact you and maybe pick your brain more about bilingual ministry, are you open to getting an email? 55:58 - Speaker 2 Yes, yes, your brain more about bilingual ministry. Are you open to getting an email? Yes, yes, they can email me, josuelopez at redemptionmessagecom, and they can contact me and talk. We can share a coffee, a meal and we can help. I'm here to help people. 56:11 - Speaker 1 Yep, amen, I'll make sure to share your email too. Well, thank you, my brother. It's always good to see you and always good to learn. Preach and lead with confidence. Be sure to check out sermoncentral.com slash podcast. SermonCentral is the largest online resource hub for pastors and ministry leaders. From illustrations to outlines to media, you'll find everything you need to preach and lead effectively. So check out sermoncentral.com/podcast, where you'll even find a special podcast listener discount on our membership pricing. 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