When Your Calling Shifts: Lessons from Ministry to Marketplace

00:02 - Speaker 1 One of the questions we hear a lot is this idea of what do you do when you're calling changes or shifts and you have to move from ministry to marketplace. Maybe you've never worked in the marketplace or the secular world, if you want to call it that but what do you do when that happens? And on today's episode we've got Johnny Levy back to talk with us about what that change felt like in his life, what was going on, what he did, what he didn't do and, obviously, some of the things he learned along the way, which were hard fought battles, very hard fought battles. So, as many of you listening might know, you know those transitions in ministry, those transitions in calling. They can be extremely difficult. So Johnny shares with such grace and such wisdom, very personally from his own journey and it's just a really encouraging lesson. So I'm excited to share with you today. Thanks for listening. Hello, johnny, glad to have you back. How are you doing today? 01:01 - Speaker 2 Oh, I'm doing great man. I'm having such a good start to the day and I get to be with you so it's even better. 01:08 - Speaker 1 Yes, sir, always good to see your face, always good. So today we're going to be talking about something that's near and dear to both our hearts, but especially you. You're living it. You're living it, so let's just jump right into it. But you have transitioned from ministry into the marketplace. What was that like for you and how has that felt? 01:30 - Speaker 2 That's a great question, how much time we got. So let's see, I was a bivocational pastor for 10 years, with many of those years you and I were pastors together, and those were some incredible years of my life, years, um, you know, with many of those years you and I were pastors together, um and uh, and those were, those were some incredible years of my life. I mean just amazing. And also there's so many hard things that we encountered together. Um, but it was also beautiful and and so I did that for 10 years and at a certain point I began to kind of start to feel the tugging that something was off with my life, and what it came down to in my prayer time was that I really was trying to do too much. I was trying to be a pastor and you know we were a plurality of leaders and so we had a pastor elder was kind of interchangeable in our usage, and so we had six most of the time between five and six elders who were collaboratively making decisions and sharing the preaching load and pastoral requirements and all that kind of stuff. And so in my time with the Lord it just became clear I'm doing too many things and I'm not doing any of them. Well, right, so I'm trying to be a dad to young kids, trying to be a husband to a beautiful wife. I'm trying to run a church and invest in people and preach. You know I was preaching probably once every four to six weeks. Uh, I am running a business. You know I'm. I'm a leader, a business leader. Um, I have really hobbies that are creative hobbies that are very important to me. I'm a leader, a business leader. I have really hobbies that are creative hobbies that are very important to me. I'm a poet, and you see it, and on and on and on. And so it finally became clear through, really, you know God speaking, you know like hearing God and sensing God in my quiet time and circumstantially, things started to happen to just make it clear, as clear as it could be. 03:26 So I did have a healthy separation from the pastoral role and even that was beautiful, the way that it played out. It was very beautiful. But it was also extremely hard. And I thought you know, because I was feeling you know there is a certain if you're a pastor, you understand this there's a certain burden you carry that you couldn't necessarily put into words and it's beneath all the things that you do. It's the weight of the people, and I don't mean this like it's a negative weight, but it is something you feel and bear. It's just there and I kind of thought, okay, I'm going to be able to take. I've been feeling crushed by the different weights that are on me and I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm heading into a season of rest and I'm heading into a season of recuperation and revitalization. And that was not the case. 04:21 And the shift, you know, the shift happened and I was expecting, you know, clarity to come. Okay, well, what's next? And you know how, how's my life supposed to look? And what really happened was three years of desert. And, uh, you know, and I'm I'm kind of, six months out of that, three years, six to eight months out of that, three years of desert at this point, and the desert a lot happened in the desert. A lot of cool stuff happened in the desert. 04:49 I wrote a book, uh, the super power quest. So my book, I published that. That was written in my years in the desert and it was published in my years in the desert and it was, you know, one of one of. One of the happiest accomplishments of my life was writing that book, and so there was good things that happened in the desert, but there was also just an ink that I was really stuck and it felt like you know, I think there's a scripture that says it felt like this guy was made of bronze. It felt like I couldn't punch through to get to God and there was just something that was hindering my relationship and it had to do with my identity. 05:27 I had a lot of, I had more of my identity wrapped up in being a pastor than I thought, because I, you know, I'm a pretty introspective dude. I've got a, I've got a pretty good self understanding in general, and that's that's been costly to come by, and so generally I think I know that's been costly to come by. Um, and so generally I think I know what's going on with me. But I come into this season you know I'm not a pastor anymore. It was a huge, huge it just it just hurt my family. My kids were all raised in the church. They didn't know another church. They were born from age zero into that church. That was their community. Um, you know, the church actually ended up winding down and again, that was also healthy as well, but there was just so much. We carried so many wounds from that. 06:15 Like my kids are just weeping because, no, you know, we try a different church. And my kids are weeping because they're like it's not. It's not a lazy right, it's not the same. And so all this is going on, man, and I'm just trying. What is the Lord even doing with me? What is even happening? What do I do with that part of me, the pastor part? I can't preach anymore. I don't have a place to preach. People are calling me to come and deal with their issue. The same way you know what I mean when you're a pastor, you get that call like I got to go their issue. The same way, you know what I mean. 06:45 - Speaker 1 Like when you're a pastor you get called. 06:50 - Speaker 2 You get that call, like I got to go, um and so, and so I was just like, well, what, what? What do I do with that? Is that just gone? Am I? Am I CEO Johnny now, and pastor Johnny's gone, and and it all came. It did come down to identity. I had a part of my identity wrapped up in that. 07:02 Um, and being a pastor is actually not an identity, and let me tell you what I mean by that, and this is actually comes from the teaching of. Jamie Winship wrote a book called Living Fearless, one of the most influential books in my life, and this is a book that I read towards the end of this season. That helped me understand what was happening and what God was doing to me. Um, you know, your identity is is deeper than your vocation, it's deeper than any title that you carry. Right, your identity is is God breathed and God whispered, right Like you. Only God can tell you your your identity, right Like you know God, and and and something like this like God, when you think of Johnny, when you think of me, what do you think? Right, like, who am I? And so part of this book was that process, and so I realized part of my. 07:57 I had kind of tacked on an identity onto myself of pastor and now that I wasn't a pastor formally, it felt like I wasn't a pastor formally, um, it felt like, um, I wasn't myself anymore. Yeah, and that's a problem, right, because your identity should be something that can hold fast even when conditions change, and circumstances change and external realities change, um, so, uh. So anyway, I hope I'm heading in the right direction. Matt, you opened up a can on yourself. 08:34 - Speaker 1 I'm open and willing to open the can. I love it Because I talked to so many pastors about some of this stuff and actually something that you said that I've heard over and over again and I hope people resonate with what you said. But you said that you said you know my identity as a pastor. Once I wasn't that anymore. I learned that my identity as that thing was way more, way more wrapped up in that than I ever would have thought, and I had a similar experience. I thought, oh, you know I'll rest for six months and you know, recharge and do some other things. I'll be right back in it in six months. Well, guess what, seven years later? Yeah, and you know I'm off doing other things, doing a podcast, working with pastors, meeting with pastors. You know, praise God, no-transcript, going to spend the weekend at Skateland and eating. You know, sour Patch Kids, like we'll see, that's funny. But, um, yeah, so that that resonated a lot. And how did you? Um, can you identify or how did you start to unwind some of that? You know you mentioned this book. Um, did you say Jamie Winship? That's correct, yeah, okay, jamie Winship. 10:19 What was the title of the book? Again, living Fearless? Okay, perfect. So, if people want to pick that up, that's what that was. So that was something that helped you. Do you remember, like, what were some of the conversations that helped you begin to unwind that and what did that look like? You know, was it people? Was it books? Was it prayer time? Was it literally just time? You know chronological time needed, like what helped you. So I would say it was Kairos time. You know chronological time needed, like what? What helped you? 10:46 - Speaker 2 So I would say it was Kairos time as opposed to Kronos time, and what I mean by that is right, kairos is like God's appointed time for things to happen and Kronos is just time as we understand it, right, sequential time. And so so there were. There were a lot of moments along the way. The one that I remember most vividly is the book, and part of it is what the book, the exercises in the book, right, the exercises. They're prayer journaling exercises, and one of the exercises is ask the Lord to show you the names that you've been called, that other people have called you and that you've called yourself, that you have accepted over yourself, like, ask God to reveal the names. And so I'm thinking to myself, I've done a lot of this work. You know, I'm like I've done a lot of this work, so I'm like that's probably nothing going to come up, and I asked the question. You know, reflectively, right, prayer journaling. And immediately I'm taken back to this moment. 11:39 You know, in my childhood, when I was branded with the name coward, branded with it, branded with it in my heart, and um, and, and it was so deep it was beyond thought. Does that make sense? It was, it was beneath thought it was the kind of like, like, like a fish swimming in water and you'd like like, hey, you know how's the water today and the fish is like what's water, you know? Like. It was like that for me, and so it explained all these behaviors I have where I would hide or I would get defensive or I would get angry and like why it was because I believe I'm a coward. I believe that I'm a coward. That's a name that might be one of the deepest names and most destructive names that I ever believed about myself, but I fully believed it and therefore I had to act right. And so that was half the exercise was asking about the names. 12:32 The other half of the exercise and this is where it gets just glorious man, is you go to your father and you say, okay, first, what do you want me to do with these other names? And then, second, what is your name for me? What do you call me? Who do you say that I am? And yes, I want to hear that both in the general sense right, like forgiven, redeemed, loved. But I also want to hear that in the individual sense right, because the word says I'm spiritually and wonderfully made. The word says I'm in workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works that he before prepared that I should walk in them. He's got my own. I'm his unique, special workmanship. So tell me what that is, lord. How am I your unique and special workmanship? And this is what the Lord told me, man, this is what I heard through my prayer journaling exercise Creative connector, the hearer and holder of hearts, and and and let me tell you what else I heard. 13:29 Um, no, I'm not disappointed with you, right? I'm not sitting here shaking my head at you because, again, during that three years, I'm I'm feeling like, since I can't preach, since I can't do ministry in the ways that count, right, count in quotes, um, god's not as pleased with me. In fact, I think he's displeased with me. In fact, I think he's mad at me, right, and? And what he would be saying, what? What I would picture him saying about me would be something like this man, johnny, I love you, man, but why can't you get it together, right, like I love you, son, but how long is it going to take for you to figure this stuff out? And and and so, but then then you go to God, and that's what's so beautiful about the book. 14:08 The book is like no, no, no, you've got to go talk to God. Yeah, like, don't, don't go to your own brain, right, don't lean to your own understanding. Yeah, don't go. You know, like, go to God, you've got. This is the. If there's a thing you got to hear from God, it's this You've got to get your identity from God. You've got to know what God thinks about you. If you want to live a life of effectiveness and passion and joy, you've got to know what God thinks right. And so, guess what? 14:33 God never calls me I'm about to cry Coward. He never called me a coward. He never called me a failure. He never called me stupid. Other people called me a failure. He never called me stupid. Other people called me that right. Other people called me a coward. I called myself that a fool, coward, failure. God never called me that right. 14:57 And so all I had to do was dial him up on the phone, like tell me, daddy, what do you think? And he tells me creative connector, the hearer and holder of hearts. He tells me you know God's poet. He tells me, lover and mover of souls. He tells me, he calls me connector of movement. Right, and I start to. I start to believe, I start to believe Right, and all of a sudden that begins to obliterate all this. 15:20 The difference between the, the, the sacred world and the secular world starts to obliterate for me, because I thought the kingdom work could only be done from the pulpit and I wouldn't have said that I would have put some nuance on it. But there was still some sense in which ministry work in the ministry setting, is what counts as real kingdom work and the other stuff is kind of like what Jordan Raynor calls like B-team stuff. I've heard that that's kind of the framework that they've given over there with some of the ministry work that he's doing, showing people that there is no delineation between the sacred and the secular. There's just people who are living out their unique calling from God for his glory, whether it's inside the church walls or outside the church walls, and neither gets to be prioritized over the other. And so at this point, bro, I speak to you as a person who's like. 16:12 I know my calling, I know what I'm here to do and every place is church for me. You know what I'm saying. I'm in the boardroom. That's church, man. I'm on this call with you. That's church. I'm talking to people that believe in Jesus. That's church. I'm talking to people that don't believe in church. I'm having church with people that don't believe in Jesus. Bro, all the time, all the time. 16:33 - Speaker 1 They don't even know they're in church. 16:35 - Speaker 2 They know it's church, but that was a journey. That's what God was doing with those three years. Right, he was showing, he was drawing out, like oh there's, there's a misunderstanding. You have my son. There's something you believe that wasn't true, and isn't that always what torments us? It's the things that we believe that aren't true, but we believe them with our whole heart. 16:57 - Speaker 1 Right Like if I'm became a pastor. 17:07 - Speaker 2 Yeah, oh, I was trying to be a pastor. What were you before the foundation of the world? Yeah, right, like that's the question. So so that's that's some of the journey for me, man, and there's so much more I could tell, but that's that's the crux of it is. At this point, you know, I'm a, I'm a CEO of a company. Um, I have multiple side hustles going on that are passion projects, my superpower quest movement, the book, and the community superpower community, my kingdom superpowers newsletter, which is where I get to interview people and draw out my calling is identity and connection, and so I am always just calling out the identities of people and showing how there are so many people out there who, every single person, is like a unique masterpiece of God's glory and his design, and I have a platform where I get to draw that out of people and then show it to the world. So, kingdom Superpowers and the kingdom connections community, um, uh, you know, kingdom superpowerscom. Uh, little, little little shameless plug there If y'all want some good console. Uh, no shame at all. 18:16 - Speaker 1 Yeah, cause I think people are. People are, um, if you, you know, if you're listening to this, you must have some interest in you know what life is there after ministry, and so I think it'd be great for people to check out what you are doing. And it kind of brings up for me a quick question the transferable skills. You know things you've learned as a pastor, things you learned I love how you said the boardroom. You know what did you learn in those elder meetings and in those one-on-one meetings and then those family counseling sessions? How did, how have you translated some of those skills and what are those skills like now, you know, in the quote-unquote marketplace of life? So, yeah, how are you transferring transferable skills? You know what hope is there? What have you learned? What are you applying? 19:08 - Speaker 2 So there's a lot of hope and, and just I mean there's just a lot. So so I think probably the first thing is it has to do with identity. I think a person who's been in ministry and who has had the time to really work on your relationship with God and just really really be a child of your father and a son or a daughter in the arms of your father, you have a gift. That's probably the skill that exceeds all other skills. Yeah, you have the greatest competitive advantage in the workplace that a person can have just knowing that I am a child of God and he loves me and he designed and created me for a purpose. And so I'm going to go and start. I'm going to try to find work where they need what I have, but I'm also going to trust that God's going to guide me to the places where they need what I have, right. So that's number one. That's number one right, because how many people do you talk and you'll find this as you're going and talking to people out here in in the world as it currently exists, how many of us are really comfortable in our own skin? How much of us really are proceeding and doing our life from a foundation of being loved, right. But you get to call people into that and let me tell you, that makes healthy teams, that makes healthy organization, that makes healthy conflict resolution Right, and so I would say that. And then I'd probably say you know, we definitely I mean you were there. 20:57 We had some really hard elder meetings, right, like we had some. We had some. We had to navigate sometimes some really hard elder dynamics. We had a lot of very strong personalities in the room, um, and we loved each other, but we were also all fallible men, and we were not only fallible men but fallible men with very strong personalities in the same room. And so did we have our share of conflict? Yes, we did Sure. Yes, we did Um and did, did. Did I have to learn to navigate that conflict with humility? Yes, I did Right, right, um, and so, uh, you know, I would say humility is probably the next trait that you know there's a shortage of in the world, let's say. 21:45 And when a humble person comes into a room, there's an aroma and a fragrance and people just can't get enough of it, even if they don't know, they're like I don't know what I like about that dude, but he never beats me up, or like I give that dude criticism and he smiles me up, yeah, you know. Or like I give that dude criticism and he smiles at me, yeah, like, come on, bro. So we're talking about soft skills, really, but soft skills, like they call them soft skills, but I think it's maybe deceiving, because what makes a great worker, a great contributor in an organization, is the soft skills. But the hard skills can be learned, I think so. But the soft skills, they can kind of be learned, but they really come from transformation. 22:33 So, yeah, I'm here to say, yeah, man, your pastor that's now coming into the workplace, like you, your transport from your transformation is the gifts you have to give to the world, whether it's in the marketplace or whether it's in the church. Yeah, and that's going to look like the spiritual gifts that come from transformation are going to look like love, joy, peace, patience. I'm going to do all of them Kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Yeah, I mean, those are. Those are things that breed success of an endeavor, right, because they're intrinsically good. Yeah, right, so humility would be the second one and, uh, and I'd say the third one, well, the third one kind of a subset of that, like it's dealing with people. 23:18 Pastors tend to be people who are just good with dealing with people. Um, because people, people in all their, you know all their, all their gloriousness and all their sinfulness and all their weakness and all their strengths and basically, if you're a pastor, that's the job. Yeah, you with the, you hanging out, you're a shepherd, right you just hanging out. And, um, yeah, you hanging out, you're a shepherd, right, you just hanging out. And so being able to humility, set yourself aside, set aside your agenda, trust, confidence, hope, like a posture of hope, and then you become magnetic to the people around you and you do what you say you're going to do. Right, you say you're going to do it, you do it. 24:03 And these things are incredibly precious and valuable in the workplace. And there's more hard skills. Probably that transfer over For me it was more of the soft skills that, as I press more and more and more into those things, I find that's how I get to be good at my job. Yeah, right, it's like yeah, man, when people come into my present, they feel loved. Yeah, they feel safe. Yeah, sound like a pastor. 24:30 - Speaker 1 Yeah, uh, most of them yeah. 24:33 - Speaker 2 Yeah, when I could yeah. Like I'm gonna call you out when I come into your presence than to Matt. I feel loved, I feel safe. I don't come into your presence and feel like I have to. I better get it together or I better improve. I come into your presence and I feel like this man, this man really loves me and would probably do just about anything for me. Okay, That'll get you pretty far in the workplace. 24:57 - Speaker 1 Yeah, when you're talking about it. The other thing that I've noticed a lot and noticed a lot in people who come out of ministry and get into the marketplace is you are already so used to and you're already such a hard worker Like, let's just talk about that very simple thing. You know you're already clocking 50, 60 hours a week. You already know what it means to be on call and to be responsive and to be agile and flexible. You already know all those things. So when you add that to some of the soft skills, it kind of makes me laugh because I'm thinking to myself like this sounds like the perfect employee. 25:37 Maybe we need to start a, start a some kind of website that connects, you know, former pastors and ministers into the marketplace, cause, cause, there is a, there's a lot of transfers, there's a lot that transfers, and I hope that anybody listening who is feeling discouraged or maybe feeling like, well, what am I going to do? And there's so much you could do, there's so much you could do Um, I know, and there's so much you could do, there's so much you could do. I actually know personally many who have gone into sales and marketing and have done extremely well Because of what you said about working with people. So working with people and being willing to work hard, Show up on time, stay late, come on, bro. That's what you got to do. I mean those folks. They do unbelievably well in the marketplace, so there's a lot of transfers over. 26:27 - Speaker 2 Go ahead. Oh sorry, go ahead. I was going to wrap that up. I hire people. I'm involved in the hiring process. Let me tell you the kind of people I want to hire. I want to hire people that are going to be fun to work with, easy to work with, they're going to get things done. They're not going to bring drama into the environment. Team health is very important to me. So, yeah, the pastoral gift set is great. And the other piece of hope I would give to your pastors who are listening and like, oh babe, I'm facing this transition or that could happen to me. There's a lot of ministry to be done out here. Also, I'm still a pastor, bro. Yeah Right, like I my my title. I don't have the formal title anymore and I don't have the formal vocation, but you're still a pastor. Oh yeah, yep, but go ahead. Sorry, you've been asked a different question. 27:13 - Speaker 1 Yeah Well, I think that that's a huge piece to actually ask you. But circling back to the identity piece that you brought up, you know, if God you think about the five gifts that God gave to the church the apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers let's just pretend for a minute that God wove one of those five gifts into everybody. Let's just pretend so. If God wove that into you like you think you can get that out of you. You think you can go. Even if I worked a line at a factory, you better believe I'm going to start shepherding everybody on my line. It's just how it's been happening. So I think that's a really important piece to remember as well. 28:00 And sometimes you might be in a position in your church that maybe isn't. 28:06 You might not be on the right seat. You might be in a specific job that's maybe not the right seat, and maybe in the marketplace you get to be in a seat that's better suited to that specific giftedness. So I think there's a lot of hope for moving and transitioning to those things. But what I was going to ask you was can you talk a little bit more about a couple of the things that you are working on right now, because I kind of want to draw out and highlight just how pastoral those things are and how you know, and on some level I haven't even thought this before, but I'm going to say it out loud but on some level, if you would have been still in ministry, I don't know that you'd be able to do the things that you're doing now, because you wouldn't have had the time and space to do them. So that's a whole nother part of the conversation is that, uh, you know, when you free up time, you are able to do new things, not very profound, but very true, very yeah. 29:13 So, what are you working on now? Can you talk a little bit about? Uh, you know, specifically, I'm thinking like kingdom connections um the podcasting. I'm thinking like Kingdom. 29:22 - Speaker 2 Connections, the podcasting, but some stuff you're working on All right. So probably to say, the thing I'm most excited about right now is Kingdom Superpowers, which is a newsletter and podcast, basically right. So a lot of content and interviews about helping people come into their inheritance. Like, identity is my calling. Right, so I want people to understand themselves and I'm seeing it happen, like when you understand the design that God's given you and then you accept it as good, right, like you're a miracle. You're a unique miracle handcrafted by God for a very special purpose that no one else can do. 30:03 Now, that's not. That can just sound like fancy words or like that would be nice to believe, or it can be your actual lived reality. That's right. Right, so I'm trying to draw people into that actual lived reality of understanding, like, okay, god created me this way, with certain strengths and certain weaknesses. How do I? How do I steward the weaknesses? I say steward the weaknesses because you were gifted your weaknesses. 30:27 Yeah, uh-oh, there's a difference between weakness and sin. Sin is not the same as weakness. If I'm not good at math, that's not a sin. Right. If I'm prone to insecurity, that's not a sin, right, right, you know, if I'm prone to insecurity. That's not a thing, right, but? But it may be a weakness. How do I steward the weakness? And then how do I press into the strength? Right, because I believe God fashions the tool for its work. So he doesn't make a hammer to um to be a pillow, right, yeah, he a pillow, right. Yeah, he makes a hammer to be a hammer, and so we're all differently created, uniquely created. So that's what I'm I'm very excited about. You know, kingdom superpowers is um specifically for people, for christians, uh and uh, and it's and it's christians seeking to, to grow in their spiritual gifts. Basically, yeah, and it's a lot of it's king, it's. It's primarily christians in the marketplace, marketplace that are seeking to grow. 31:23 - Speaker 1 Can I pause you on that? Yeah, so that newsletter is free, so folks are interested in checking that out. So, yeah, and part of just being in fellowship is just connecting with other like-minded people, so I would encourage anybody listening to just check it out. I mean, you're not going to be sold anything or anything like that, it's just literally an opportunity to connect with other people and if you want to go deeper, you can. 31:47 - Speaker 2 Yep that's right, man, yep, and so that's uh, and a part and a subset underneath kingdom superpowers, which is the free newsletter, is there is a paid community called kingdom connection. Um, and that is, uh, that is all about, you know, connecting I, a super connector, and so it's about getting people into the room on a regular basis and understanding what people are trying to do in the world, and so it's another level, deeper, of okay, now I understand what that person's doing, their big dream, what are they heading towards? What are they angling towards? So I'm going to help people articulate that, help you articulate what it is that your big dream is. What do you want? What's the vision and the mission that God's placed in your heart? Let's clarify that. And now let's actually get in community, in tight-knit community, regular meeting, and see what keys I have to your doors and what keys you have to my doors. Yeah, right, because I have the sense that you know what happens if you get a hundred Christians that are serious about their faith and really love Jesus and also have something they want to accomplish in the world, and we're linked, we're arms are linked and we're helping each other do that. Um, that's a pretty powerful proposition, right, and I'm an already powerful. Things are happening within that, within that community. Yeah, um, yeah, yeah Well, yeah, you're, you're, uh, you've been up in there with, with me, man, the inaugural, the inaugural meeting. You were there, um and uh. 33:16 So that's probably number one. Number two is Tongues of Fire T-O-N-G-U-E-S-A-F-I-R-E, tonguesoffirecom, and that is poetry and art for the glory of God. And so I have this. You know, I've always had this passion for CS Lewis, I've had this passion for Tolkien, I've had this passion for great creatives that both have an excellence in their dedication to the gospel and an excellence in their art form, and those two are married together, which is not often. It's not often that those things are married together excellence in the craft and excellence in, in, in your, in your gospel, devotion and dedication, um, but that's what that's what this newsletter slash podcast is about. Exalting is where I showcase, um, yeah, my art, my poetry and the art and art and poetry, and whatever the art form is dance, whether the art form is performing arts it's a place for that to be showcased, and so that's probably the thing I'm so special, so special, yeah, yeah. 34:34 - Speaker 1 And you're giving. I love. I don't even know if you thought about this, but I love that you have opened up spaces for people to get in touch with who they really are. You know, artists, people in their vocation who are also Christians. Isn't it funny that one of the things about that is just knowing that there's other people in the marketplace who are very intentional, very empowered believers is just so encouraging. It's just so encouraging, so that part's really beautiful, that's what I'm finding. 35:11 - Speaker 2 Yeah, there's just so many people. There's so many people out there that are in the marketplace, but they're pastors in their heart, right, they have a deep faith and they want to express it, and they want to express it in community, but the marketplace doesn't offer many places for us to come together and encourage each other in community, right? And so that is what I'm trying to address. It's like all right, come on in. You want to come to Superpowers Newsletter, come on in. If you want to. Like, all right, come on in. You know you want to come to Superpowers newsletter, come on in. If you want to come to the community, come on in. You want to? Are you a creative? You're an artist? Come on in. I got a place for you. 35:49 I try to make it my job to have a place to put everybody. It's so true, god brings me every week. You'd be amazed at the people God brings me that I never met before. Yeah, and it's like, all of a sudden, an hour later, I just had church for an hour with a person I never met before and beautiful, and I'm like I don't want it to end. And so I've created all these communities to put people. You know believers and some of them are not believers, right, you know what I mean. Some of them are people that don't believe and I and I and I love them so deeply and they bless me so deeply. 36:26 - Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, that's beautiful. What as we kind of wrap up our time here just talking about getting into ministry, to the marketplace, what are you finding is really continues to fill you up, continues to really, you know, give you hope as you move forward in the things you it's. 36:45 - Speaker 2 It's, I guess, two things. The first is going to be the people. You know, like, just people are so amazing, they're so beautiful, like they're, people are just breathtaking. And so I get the privilege because, right, like, because again, and now we're going back to, because of all my pastoral experience and because you know all the things that have gone into making it, so that, like, the first question I might ask a person is what are you passionate about? Before I know your name, I might just say what are you passionate about? And then the eyes light up, yeah, you know, and the breath quickens and they start to tell you this thing that they're passionate about. And then you ask more questions and you draw out okay, well, how does it tie to their identity and what are you trying to do in the world and how can I help you do the thing you're trying to do in the world? And you need to know that I know A lot of my life is that, bro, it's that. 37:39 And it gives me hope, because I think I don't know what happens. I think, for the most part in society, just the way culture is built, just the way the world is built, the way that human heart is flawed people start to become a means to your end. So the person at Chick-fil-A is just the person that takes your money. They're not a person, they're just a person. They're a placeholder for a person. Come on now, this is real. 38:06 So, Christians, non-christians alike, how many people as you go around in your reality do you actually see? Yeah, what percentage, right? And I think if we worked out the percentage, it'd be very low. Maybe I see 1% of the people, of the people that crossed my eyes, 1% of them do I actually see? Yeah, right, and so it gives me hope that, yeah, we see everything we see in the news and how bad things are and whatever. 38:33 But then when I go and actually like connect heart to heart with a person, I'm like this world is full of the image of God. It's just sharp form with the beautiful image of God, and I cannot freaking get enough of it. Bro, yeah, that's so good. I feel like a kid in a candy store when I'm going to the gas station, you know, um, so I'd say that's probably number one that gives me hope. The second thing that gives me hope is how simple life is. Yeah, um, I believe life is actually way, way more simple than the complicated American life that we think is the default and maybe the only option. Um, and what I mean by that is this is what this is. This is one of the things that I that I've heard in my prayer journaling over and over and over again. 39:21 Um, and it's. It's God speaking to me, johnny, be who you are, yeah, be who you are with me are, yeah, be who you are with me. Be who you are with me and in me and I in you, and don't be afraid and live in childlike faith. Right, my life is more and more getting that simple. To where it's that simple, to where, like when I wake up in the morning, that's what I'm going to do. Wow, be who I am with him, with my dad, with my daddy, on adventure, on adventure with my daddy. Yeah, right, he and me, I and him. I'm not going to be afraid. Because why would I be afraid? When daddy's in the room, you're not scared of the monsters under the bed, right, right, it's. When daddy leaves, or when you think he's gone, then you're scared because that closet is really dark. And when daddy's in the room, you ain't scared, yeah, so don't be afraid. And then walk with me in childlike state, right, I always picture myself, you know, walking with Jesus. I'm a child and I'm holding his, holding his finger, or I'm holding his hand, and we're walking and everything's okay, even in the worst days, everything's okay. And I'll give you, put some scripture on top of it. 40:37 That's the end of Proverbs. I believe it's Proverbs 16. You make known to me the path of life. In your presence is fullness of joy. At your right hand are pleasures forevermore. At your right hand, right your right hand, are pleasures forevermore. At your right hand, right your right hand, are pleasures forevermore. You make no need. And in your presence is fullness of joy. 40:54 Yes, sir, if I want the most joy I can have in my life, let me go get the most presence. You hear me, let me get the most presence. Well, how do I get the most presence? I don't know how you do. I I know how I do. Everybody has to find the presence. However they find the presence. But I know how I find the presence. Like, I gotta get quiet and I'm quiet, gotta get alone, gotta get the quiet place and I just gotta open my heart to heaven. 41:19 Gotta meditate on the scripture, meditate on the word. Yeah, how does that happen for you? Is it getting out in nature? You gotta go out in the nature. You gotta listen to. You gotta play some worship music, I don't care Whatever it is. Yeah, eat that up, cause that's, that's your life, that's your whole life. Homie, you want to go out there and make a difference. Man, get transformed, you make a difference. You won't be able to help, but make a difference if you get transformed and how you get transformed. Man, you got to go be with your dad. Yeah, spend time with your daddy. Yeah, that's all. I'm gonna preach that for the rest of my life, bro. That's, that's all I got to preach. 41:53 - Speaker 1 No, it's so good. Well, and your encouragement is is really straightforward you know, be who you are. Uh. So some people listening will say, well, I don't know, I don't know who I am, I'm trying to figure that out and that's okay. That's okay. That is okay Because dad will take you through the desert, Dad's with you. So be who you are, Be with him and get after it. I guess is a good way to say it. 42:22 - Speaker 2 Dude, you have such the heart of a pastor, bro, I just love you. You're like yeah, somebody might be thinking this. So guess what? Come on in, Come on, this is for you. Like what, what the enemy's going to tell you is all this ain't for you, this is for the. This is for those super spiritual people. This is for people that have a different personality type. This is for whatever. This is for. It's like nah, man, if Jesus ain't, what? 42:49 - Speaker 1 What are we even doing if Jesus ain't for you? It's been, jesus ain't for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just banging the gong, as they say. Yeah, just banging the gong. Well, do I love? I always love talking to you. I hope that people will check out what you're doing and I definitely am just you know, on something just so proud of you and so proud to be your friend and watch what's going on and see how you transition and how you're moving in the world. It's amazing, it really is amazing. 43:13 - Speaker 2 Thank you, brother, and it's a good reminder. 43:14 - Speaker 1 Your life and other lives are really good reminders that there is life outside of ministry. And not only is there life, but there's abundance, vibrant life. So that's an encouragement, that's a really huge encouragement to folks who are just feeling like what am I going to do, what am I going to do, who am I going to be and how's it going to work out and I know the feeling, bro. 43:39 - Speaker 2 I know the feeling man. Talk to me. Just snapshot of me two weeks ago. 43:47 - Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying Well, it does that in flow. I yeah, that's true. And you know like, Well, it does that in flow. I mean, that's a whole other conversation. 43:53 - Speaker 2 It does flow, got to be patient with yourself. Got to be patient with the process. 43:57 - Speaker 1 Yeah, that's right. Well, until next time, my friend, be well, lord bless you, my brother, all right, see you. Thanks for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with another pastor or ministry leader who you think might benefit from this conversation. And if you're looking for more tools and resources to help you preach and lead with confidence, be sure to check out sermoncentralcom slash podcast. Sermon Central is the largest online resource hub for pastors and ministry leaders. From illustrations to outlines to media, you'll find everything you need to preach and lead effectively. So check out https://sermoncentral.com slash podcast, where you'll even find a special podcast listener discount on our membership pricing. Check it out and stay tuned for our next episode.